[split] Are Questions About God Important?

[Confused-by-christianity]

We basically have two answers here:

Question - what makes a thing important?

People who don’t believe in god
- because we say it is. Or, a group of us say it is

People who do believe in god
- because something higher made it so.

Was there much else deeper than that said??

[arewethereyet]

Are these things worthy because they shine out of gods wherever, or do they shine out of gods wherever because they are worthy?

Probably the first one.  That would make god the bestower

Btw - we are out of my pay grade here - I can give my worldview - but not account for every little detail

If you are confused by Christianity, why do you still say you are Christian?

[brewer]

Sounds to me that you're not really confused (user name), I think that you believe. It's more like you can't actually explain/justify to non believers.

That's OK, believe what ever you want if it gets you thru your day.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If you think there is nothing outside this universe that is worthy of your greatest gift, you STILL strive for ideals. Why is God necessary for that?

Ideals trapped in a universe that has no real meaningful expression.  You do good stuff, and then it's over.  the deed dies out and eventually float off into nothingness and the universe dies with all your actions and everything you do.

Why bother?  (I hate to say the above paragraph, and it's not what i think really happens.  I thing your goodness lives on and is recorded.  it transforms into something meaningful - and never dies)

Why is God, the author of all misery, evil, and calamity, worthy of your best effort?

I think god has attributes that are worthy - like goodness, love, truth, beauty, personality, courage.  They shine out of god.

Fear is actually a fantastic motivator. The trouble with your particular brand of godism is that the fear motivation is all out of proportion.

Not out of proportion.
Its a poor reason to do good things.  "Why do you love me?".  "Because i'm afraid of what you'll do if i don't love you".
fear needs to be kept in it's place - keeping you alive in the biological sense.  it has no business in the spiritual matters though.

What ‘dreams and values’ motivate you, personally? You said earlier that, without God, you wouldn’t care about anything. Your motivation appears to be going to Eternal Happy Funland. Seems kind of a selfish way to live your life.

Happy funland is a giant family, we are all family, brothers and sisters with god as our father.  greater and greater challenges and growth, helping eachother find the father.

If you really don’t think ideals are meaningless because they’re impermanent, why did you say it?

One might say the same thing about a cocker spaniel. Would you devote your best efforts to a cocker spaniel?

Of course it’s out of proportion. Trying to make people behave via the threat of eternal punishment for finite transgression is MONSTROUSLY out of proportion. And what you’re describing isn’t love, but a dangerous co-dependency.

Ever seen a child with bone cancer? Some ‘father’.

Boru

[Confused-by-christianity]

Probably the first one.  That would make god the bestower

Btw - we are out of my pay grade here - I can give my worldview - but not account for every little detail

If you are confused by Christianity, why do you still say you are Christian?

Everything confuses me - but to answer the question, it’s that I think Jesus is a projection of god that us mortals can harmonise with.

But that’s just my worldview (theology??? ), what kept me was a personal experience

[Ravenshire]

Questions about gawd are, until and unless the posited gawd is supported by evidence, totally irrelevant.

[The Grand Nudger]

Are these things worthy because they shine out of gods wherever, or do they shine out of gods wherever because they are worthy?

Probably the first one.  That would make god the bestower

Btw - we are out of my pay grade here - I can give my worldview - but not account for every little detail

Nah.  That's crystal clear.  It can get a little sticky in the follow up, though.  If we've decided that things are worthwhile because they shine out of gods wherever, instead of shining out of gods wherever because they are worthwhile ; then if badness, hate, falsity, ugliness, vacuity, and cowardice were what was shining out of gods wherever.. those things would be the set of the worthwhile.  That sound accurate to you?  

We basically have two answers here:

Question - what makes a thing important?

People who don’t believe in god
- because we say it is. Or, a group of us say it is

People who do believe in god
- because something higher made it so.

Was there much else deeper than that said??

There are more than two answers and all of them are open to people who believe in gods or people who don't.

[Confused-by-christianity]

If you really don’t think ideals are meaningless because they’re impermanent, why did you say it?

I think (divine) ideals are meaningful and permanent.
I can review idealism without a divine being - to test it, and find if it makes sense or not. It doesn’t to me at least.

One might say the same thing about a cocker spaniel. Would you devote your best efforts to a cocker spaniel?

Bad example. Lots of people devote their best efforts to their dogs.
Anyway - I’m talking about a divine being - perfection. Not a dog.

Of course it’s out of proportion. Trying to make people behave via the threat of eternal punishment for finite transgression is MONSTROUSLY out of proportion. And what you’re describing isn’t love, but a dangerous co-dependency.

That’s when you have two imperfect beings coming together and addicted to each other’s worst parts - parts we should be outgrowing not indulging.
I’m talking about a perfect being and a mortal.

We really should drop the childish ideas of god to talk about this seriously.
God as a cocker spaniel ??
God as a narcissist??

[arewethereyet]

Dogs are as close to perfect as any being I have encountered.

[Confused-by-christianity]

Dogs are as close to perfect as any being I have encountered.

Hard to argue