Ben Shapiro vs Neil deGrasse Tyson: The WAR Over Transgender Issues

[Paleophyte]

It's as if there's some odd notion of Conservation of Rights where if anybody else is given basic human rights and freedoms some of yours must be taken away. This is most likely the "cost to society" that keeps the right awake at night, but I'll let him speak for himself.

[Silver]

The only thing being taken away from them is their perceived right to discriminate without consequence.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Bigoted mentality has to maintain the same rhetoric in order to avoid acceptance of diversity.

It's unlikely you will ever dent a closed mind of course, but the fact that proper objective evidence, and answering questions are anathema to him, speaks volumes. 

The problem for me is that there is objective evidence that gender dysphoria exists, so his argument it is some kind of conspiracy concocted by nefarious scientists doesn't match that fact. He can't offer one single cogent word as to why it bothers him, can't offer any intelligent answer as to why we should let some people express who they are and not others, and can't offer an intelligible word, or any evidence as to why it need cost anyone anything, in fact he has run away from multiple requests he justify that claim, quelle surprise.

He's not interested in supporting his points. He probably has none because he hasn't questioned his points in the first place, and so hasn't read up on pro/con information. It's clear to me that his interest is rhetoric and argumentation, rather than discussion and information.

[The Grand Nudger]

That'd be fine if the nuts ever took advantage of the occasion to construct better arguments. Genteel bigotry isn't hard, we did it for centuries.

[Thumpalumpacus]

That'd be fine if the nuts ever took advantage of the occasion to construct better arguments.  Genteel bigotry isn't hard, we did it for centuries.

Right. We still have assholes defending slavery based on the bible, too. But no, they stick to tried-and-true. so to speak, of course.

[Sheldon]

It's as if there's some odd notion of Conservation of Rights where if anybody else is given basic human rights and freedoms some of yours must be taken away. This is most likely the "cost to society" that keeps the right awake at night, but I'll let him speak for himself.

This occurred to me as well, it's odd how people think they can have complete freedom, without it inevitably impacting on those of others. The bottom line here for me, is that martens can't offer an explanation of what it costs anyone for those who suffer from gender dysphoria to live and be themselves, or why he cares at all. Maybe he is on a theist forum trying to get some arguments, but the fact he didn't have simple cogent arguments, destroys the claims he has made. 

His prejudice against trans people was of course clear from the start, when he open here by creating a thread comparing them to a mythical monster created by a mad scientist, his responses there also suggest this was not meant as metaphor.

Of course there is objective evidence that gender dysphoria is real, that's where his claims have to be rejected as unevidenced rhetoric, based on simple prejudice.

[The Grand Nudger]

Maybe that's the way magic works. Only so much to go around. If our rights, whatever they are..and if it even makes sense to talk about such things in a god fueled world....are in essence a magical substance flowing from a supernatural being...then who knows, right? That's the underlying cultural lesson to the proliferation of the divine. I think we can discard the contents and disparities between them all (and every other position) because this alone is an impossible situation for the organization of a community. In that it's become a matter of faith for a significant portion of our electorate that the country can be "fixed" by needling in on a half dozen athletes explicitly and the 1-2% of non binary people implicitly- we aren't going to find a tolerable resolution to "the trans issue"..but we aren't going to find any sort of resolution to any other issue.

It's an unserious way to organize a community, let alone run a country. The god fueled world (any of them, all of them, only one of them..whatever) may even work like that - but human societies don't. They fail like that. So I don't care why the nuts believe this shit. I don't think they even have a reason or an argument. In most cases I'd credit it all to pathology. It's not a rational position they were argued into so they don't know why they believe it and can't competently explain it. May as well ask a squirrel to bake a cake.

[brewer]

It's difficult to suppress irrational fears once they find a voice in society. Many institutions rely on this premise.

[TheWhiteMarten]

Is it me or did TWM still not reply to what the "Cost" is to a society for people being trans? If/when he does so, id like to compare this to the cost of christian bigotry and misogyny. A society can rather afford to have trans people than having christians. Should we prohibit christians from being christians? I wonder why he is still struggling with basic human rights after i told him to read up on it.

His last reply seems to suggest, this is something that needs to be earned (through actions and achievements).  I wonder what other ethics 101 he is struggling with.

(my bold)

TWM is too big a coward to approach this topic with any kind of intellectual honesty.

Thanks for bringing it up; I skim through the spam when I feel like swinging by, and I reckon this one must be a big one yall want addressed. I'm sorry you didn't have any family to visit or a vacation to take on your New Years, but try to understand that's not the case for all of us and watch your tongue.

I'm not sure what you mean by "cost" - of course there is always going to be a general "cost" when people suffer from mental disorders - but I don't think they differ from someone with schizophrenia, alcoholism, or alien hand syndrome; the "cost" of someone on society is determined by their actions, not by their sex or gender - or any other stereotype you want to try to fit them into. I don't buy into your hyper-collectivism, hyper-ingroup bigotry and the simple truth is that this ideology has been carefully developed by simple minds with simple goals; their own benefit at the expense of everyone else.

The cost of "Christian bigotry and misogyny" is just the cost of bigotry and misogyny - and my dear, you sure love to float the idea of taking away the rights of others - how very fassy of you.

[Deesse23]

[
I'm not sure what you mean by "cost" -

YOU were the one bringing the term "cost" to the table. YOU failed to explain for a week to explain what you meant

Try to be honest, at least once in your (forum) life, because: Jesus was not impressed with your blatant dishonesty.

So, for the upteenth time, what is the cost YOU were referring to with regards to stopping to discriminate against trans people?