Primordial Sex--Eden as Allegory

[chi pan]

Your reply came immediately after mine, and you didn't quote anybody. What would expect one to assume?

well you're right about that. sorry.

Fair enough and good eye but by that concept that also means that God is okay with gay marriage so long as it takes place in the states of Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont and New Hampshire because they've passed laws making gay marriage legal in their specific states. If that's not okay, then your previous statement is invalid and does not prove that God has changed his stance on rape victims' marrying their attackers. He still has not said, "As time goes by, my laws shall adapt to fit more morally the cultures of the time.

no, though the bible says obey the law of the land that does not mean you can break God's law just b/c it's not against the law. also, if the law conflicts with those laws of the bible, then you are to follow God's law first. example of this can be found in the story of Daniel and the lions den.

On a non-confrontational seriously consider it note, can you not at least consider the idea that Atheists can be good people and follow the good morals that one finds in bible without the bible itself being their source or influence? Being good just for the sake of being good with no expectations in return? Say for instance a car crash on a highway, a burning car with a person inside who could be saved, atheists and Christians alike pull together to save the person, are they not both good people doing a moral act?

yes i do believe this. there are athiests who are good people but i also believe morals should come from something greater than ourselves. if we are to decide what's right and what's wrong, it would be like moral anarchy and people would do whatever they want. that for all we know it's not wrong if you don't get caught.

[frankiej]

. if we are to decide what's right and what's wrong, it would be like moral anarchy and people would do whatever they want. that for all we know it's not wrong if you don't get caught.

You don't have much trust in yourself, do you? I assume that you would be happy to kill or rape if their was no "law of god".

[chi pan]

You don't have much trust in yourself, do you? I assume that you would be happy to kill or rape if their was no "law of god".

it's not myself i don't trust, it's others. there are enough law breakers as it is. without religous morality there would be more. there may be some people who can handle just fine following rules without a real reason to follow them, but there will always be many who can't.

[frankiej]

I think you are mistaking morality with the law.

Good people will probably be good regardless.

[chi pan]

I think you are mistaking morality with the law.

Good people will probably be good regardless.

though they are different they often go hand in hand. the crime of murder is one of morality. so is stealing, assult, and others. if people have their own morals, then there will be those who think it's ok to murder, steal, and hurt others. they will think as long as they don't get caught they don't have to face consequences.

[Epimethean]

And this is why the bible recommends stealing other people's lands, taking their wives, enslaving or killing them?

[chi pan]

And this is why the bible recommends stealing other people's lands, taking their wives, enslaving or killing them?

the Law in the Torah was directed to every man individually, not the government of man. also the hebrew word used in the 6th commandment means illegal killing. killing for war and for exicution is not restricted. and they wouldn't take their wives they would take their virgins. is war illegal today?

[Epimethean]

In the US, religious war is illegal, as is rape, the taking of slaves and the killing of captives. Your point then?

[chi pan]

In the US, religious war is illegal, as is rape, the taking of slaves and the killing of captives. Your point then?

rape is illegal in the bible too. and what does that mean "in the US, religious war is illegal"? does that mean we cannot have a civil war that involves religion? we cannot be involved with a religious war with another country? we're in a religious war right now, it's in a country called Afghanistan.

look you're going off topic, the point if with morality you can't say any of this is wrong. the bible holds the highest standard when it comes to morality. it even has the golden rule which is considered by many to be the most important moral claim ever (Matthew 7:12). Jesus took the old testimate and gave the idea of "don't even think about it." reguardless of what you disagree with you at least have to acknowledge that.

[Epimethean]

Uh, the point is, the bible advocates just about everything which it condemns, and so, it is a self-refuting text full of contradiction and hypocrisy. Suggesting it holds the high moral ground is pure idiocy.