Knowing everything and allowing evil

[chi pan]

It's usually argued that allowing evil was necessary to allow free-will.

A problem with this is that we know some people are not evil but good. God could have just created the good people and spared the evil people that would go to hell from being created.

God is believed to have knowledge of all potential souls. Even if it's 1 in a trillion souls that are good and would not do any serious evil, out of infinite potential souls, he could pick only those ones.

At the very least, he could have only created the people that would not earn hell.

The people he would chose to do good with same free-will could be created, so it would not negate free-will at all.

Thus evil is not necessary to allow free-will if God knows everything.

God was invented thousands of years ago by primates. The only good side to keeping it going is as a model for evolution.

In other words, you can't win over nature. Nature created man, religion, athiesm. In that order.

the only way you can defeat atheism is to kill us all. but by that time there will only be you left and the question about God is invalid.

Is that what you want?

Wow that is not even close to the subject I was talking about. I was talking about why God allows evil. This was brought up by the athiest who posted the thread and I'm giving an answer to it. That's it; I'm not trying to kill atheists or anything like that.

My answer may be generic but so is the question. I could give you 25 reasons why God doesn't have any effect on evil, but I can't work past the fact that God doesn't exist in your premise. sorry.

The conversation isn't whether he exists it's why he allows evil. I'm not going to engage in this unrelated subject on this thread.

[Zen Badger]

well i already defined the terms but if i need to reiterate then fine. good and evil are subject to a lot of bad interpritation and mean very different things to many different people but since we are talking about God and the bible it only seams fitting to use the biblical definition when it comes to the question why does God allow evil. evil is the result of man disobeying God. God has very strict commands and evil is the result of disobeying these commands. if God controlled all our decisions, there would be no evil but since he doesn't then we have the ability to disobey. when we do so, evil is a conciquence. you may think hurting someone by lying to them is not so much evil but according to the bible it is. evil is within everyone because he gives us choice to do good or evil; obey him or not.

Since according to your bible god does every damn evil thing you can think of, rape, torture, murder, genocide, etc,etc,etc whilst also commanding his followers to do the same he is one hell of a hypocrite.

Or are these acts only evil when they're not commanded by god?

[chi pan]

well i already defined the terms but if i need to reiterate then fine. good and evil are subject to a lot of bad interpritation and mean very different things to many different people but since we are talking about God and the bible it only seams fitting to use the biblical definition when it comes to the question why does God allow evil. evil is the result of man disobeying God. God has very strict commands and evil is the result of disobeying these commands. if God controlled all our decisions, there would be no evil but since he doesn't then we have the ability to disobey. when we do so, evil is a conciquence. you may think hurting someone by lying to them is not so much evil but according to the bible it is. evil is within everyone because he gives us choice to do good or evil; obey him or not.

Since according to your bible god does every damn evil thing you can think of, rape, torture, murder, genocide, etc,etc,etc whilst also commanding his followers to do the same he is one hell of a hypocrite.

Or are these acts only evil when they're not commanded by god?

God rapes? How does that even work? Lol it's not even possible. As for murder he does not murder. He exicutes wrong doers. There's a difference between murder and execution. Look it up. He does not torture either. He allows people to torture others because he doesn't block out free will and he sends people to hell but he is not torturing them. They are tortured because they are separated from God.

[Zen Badger]

Since according to your bible god does every damn evil thing you can think of, rape, torture, murder, genocide, etc,etc,etc whilst also commanding his followers to do the same he is one hell of a hypocrite.

Or are these acts only evil when they're not commanded by god?

God rapes? How does that even work? Lol it's not even possible. As for murder he does not murder. He exicutes wrong doers. There's a difference between murder and execution. Look it up. He does not torture either. He allows people to torture others because he doesn't block out free will and he sends people to hell but he is not torturing them. They are tortured because they are separated from God.

Did he ask Marys permission before he impregnated her?

No, and that is rape by any definintion.

And when he sent two bears to kill 42 children who had mocked Elisha's baldness, that was executing wrongdoers was it?

As to torture? read Revelations, all the gratuitous death and torture you could wish for. And ALL at gods command.

[chi pan]

First off I think you should look up the definition of rape. It requires forceful sex. That did not happen. On top of that, an angel told marry before hand about her divine plan and she was honored. Second, your story of Elijah is misinterpreted. He did not curse them because he made fun of his baldness. They said "go on up you bald head." what were they saying? Elijah had gone to heaven so that's what they were refering to. They were saying go on up and take your teachings with you. That's why they were exicuted. That was extreme disrespect and blasphemy.

[Zen Badger]

First off I think you should look up the definition of rape. It requires forceful sex. That did not happen. On top of that, an angel told marry before hand about her divine plan and she was honored.

Apart from telling a completely different story in Matthew, God never asked if that was what she wanted, he just said "You're it".
As an example if your wife went to her gynaecologist who then impregnated her with his sperm(non-sexually) what would you call it?

Second, your story of Elijah is misinterpreted. He did not curse them because he made fun of his baldness. They said "go on up you bald head." what were they saying? Elijah had gone to heaven so that's what they were refering to. They were saying go on up and take your teachings with you. That's why they were exicuted. That was extreme disrespect and blasphemy.

Oh,well, that makes it all peachy keen then doesn't it.

Sending bears to maul children to death, very wise, very loving, very forgiving.
It appears god holds people to a higher moral standard than he maintains himself.
To be expected from such an outstanding hypocrite.

Nothing to say about gods murderous tantrums in Revelations????

Again, I'm not surprised.

[chi pan]

First off I think you should look up the definition of rape. It requires forceful sex. That did not happen. On top of that, an angel told marry before hand about her divine plan and she was honored.

Apart from telling a completely different story in Matthew, God never asked if that was what she wanted, he just said "You're it".
As an example if your wife went to her gynaecologist who then impregnated her with his sperm(non-sexually) what would you call it?

Second, your story of Elijah is misinterpreted. He did not curse them because he made fun of his baldness. They said "go on up you bald head." what were they saying? Elijah had gone to heaven so that's what they were refering to. They were saying go on up and take your teachings with you. That's why they were exicuted. That was extreme disrespect and blasphemy.

Oh,well, that makes it all peachy keen then doesn't it.

Sending bears to maul children to death, very wise, very loving, very forgiving.
It appears god holds people to a higher moral standard than he maintains himself.
To be expected from such an outstanding hypocrite.

Nothing to say about gods murderous tantrums in Revelations????

Again, I'm not surprised.

Like I said, marry was honored to have that destiny. She didn't complain. As for the 2 bears, there is a bit of a translation problem with it. Some say children the others say youths. The Hebrew word used could mean children but not neccissarily and it's more probable they were teenagers. They could even have been as old as 20. There were more than 42 there and they were waiting there to mock him. The bears killed 42 of them because they showed extreme disrespect and blasphemy. And yes, God is loving and forgiving, but he would not be just if he did not pass judgment.

I did not say anything about revelations because the only thing you imagine to be torture in revelations is the detailed description of hell which I already talked about. Unless you speak of the mardorers who are tortured on christ name in which case the bible claims their reward will be great in the kingdom of heaven. I also didn't comment on it because correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there is a commandment forbidding torture.

[Zen Badger]

[hide]

First off I think you should look up the definition of rape. It requires forceful sex. That did not happen. On top of that, an angel told marry before hand about her divine plan and she was honored.

Apart from telling a completely different story in Matthew, God never asked if that was what she wanted, he just said "You're it".
As an example if your wife went to her gynaecologist who then impregnated her with his sperm(non-sexually) what would you call it?

Second, your story of Elijah is misinterpreted. He did not curse them because he made fun of his baldness. They said "go on up you bald head." what were they saying? Elijah had gone to heaven so that's what they were refering to. They were saying go on up and take your teachings with you. That's why they were exicuted. That was extreme disrespect and blasphemy.

Oh,well, that makes it all peachy keen then doesn't it.

Sending bears to maul children to death, very wise, very loving, very forgiving.
It appears god holds people to a higher moral standard than he maintains himself.
To be expected from such an outstanding hypocrite.

Nothing to say about gods murderous tantrums in Revelations????

Again, I'm not surprised.

Like I said, marry was honored to have that destiny. She didn't complain.

It was still without her consent, that is at least statutory rape.

As for the 2 bears, there is a bit of a translation problem with it. Some say children the others say youths. The Hebrew word used could mean children but not neccissarily and it's more probable they were teenagers. They could even have been as old as 20. There were more than 42 there and they were waiting there to mock him. The bears killed 42 of them because they showed extreme disrespect and blasphemy. And yes, God is loving and forgiving, but he would not be just if he did not pass judgment.

So you are advocating the death penalty for insulting your god are you?
Because you seem think that killing someone for making fun of some old git is OK.(I bet you long for the good old days when you could burn heretics like me at the stake for questioning your phoney religion)

It doesn't MATTER whether they were children or youths, your loving god MURDERED them(in a most horrific way ) for the heinous crime of heckling.

And that is without going into the millions he has killed or commanded to be killed, men,women and babies.

I did not say anything about revelations because the only thing you imagine to be torture in revelations is the detailed description of hell which I already talked about. Unless you speak of the mardorers who are tortured on christ name in which case the bible claims their reward will be great in the kingdom of heaven. I also didn't comment on it because correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there is a commandment forbidding torture.

I'll bet you don't want to talk about Revelations, your vile god really goes on a murderous rampage there.
And if you think hell is the only mention of torture in revelations then clearly you haven't read it at all.
Your god subjects the living inhabitants of Earth to months of torture and torment for no good reason.

[Tiberius]

Disrespect and blasphemy is not cause for the death penalty. I question the mental stability of a God who thinks that is a fair punishment.

[MarkOfEnglandshire]

If the god of the bible was proved to exist id call him a cunt and move on my merry way to hell.. at least the devil is somewhat consistant..