Are Christians Stupid Or Just Ignorant and Delusional?

[ThomM]

Does it make them stupid though to blindly believe what they do in spite of any evidence whatsoever?

No - the overwhelming majority of christians are neither deluded - nor stupid - they have been TAUGHT to accept their faith - normally from a very early age - and simply do not question it. Few have actually read the parts of the bible that conflict - and they also are taught the prevailing SPIN on what the bible means as well.

However - evidence CANNOT exist for the religion - it claims an OMNISCIENT and ALMIGHTY god - and freedom of choice - that CANNOT BE TRUE - so the religion cannot be true.

IF a god were omniscient -= it means that it would know EVERYTHING that happened - is happening - and is going to happen for ALL TIME. IT would NOT BE possible to do something that the god DID NOT KNOW _ and there is ONLY ONE possible outcome for every situation-- the ONE thing the god already knows.

Example - if YOU are born and the god knows you will be evil - that is ALL youj can be - you cannot choose good - that conflicts with the omniscience.

SO in a world with an omniscient god - there are NO CHOICES - not even for the god - who is also limited to what it knows as well - so it cannot be almighty because it ALSO cannot change its mind too.

THAT alone eliminates not only CHristianity - but Islam - and Judaism as well.

[The Grand Nudger]

No, we do it all the time. It would take far too much of our time and limited resources to judge every assumption or truth claim in our everyday lives individually (as if we were actually capable of it in the first place). Look at how many instruments we've had to invent to augment our intel gathering system...and how many systems we've had to create to interpret those results. Have you ever tested to see if you would fall to your death when you jumped off a cliff? There are benefits to snap judgements, even if they are often accidental. Consider this, if these sorts of judgements did not originate by a "happy accident" just what agent was giving them top down direction in the first place?

Is that sound the rustling of the wind...or an approaching predator? I think I'll run anyway. There I go across the grasslands at break-neck speed, hauling ass away from an imaginary lion.

[Neo-Scholastic]

ThomM, you have presented the problem of evil and predestination vs. freewill generally. Each of these issues is more complex than you summary . I look forward to interacting with you elsewhere in more focused threads.

[Bgood]

Maybe Christians should discard the Old Testament since it's ridiculous. Disregard Paul's writings too because he was a mysogynistic hypocrite and never met Jesus "except in a sudden vision" (yeah right). Perhaps the only part of the Bible that should be given any recognition at all are the parables of Jesus which at least have some insight. Yet even his words are nothing partcularly unique or special. Any wisdom found here can be found in Eastern religions a hundred times over. Buddha for example blows away Jesus in power and knowledge. Jesus is just weak and ineffectual.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Bgood, you hurt my feelings. Ridiculous? On the surface, yes. As for me, I find the symbolism and allegories rich, complex and more profound than any other text I've known. When these guys rant and rail about how absurd it all sounds, it doesn't bother me one bit (okay maybe a little) because that's what it looks like from the perspective of those who can only recognize things that are physical. You and I know that there is an internal reality that informs the external. Even an atheist like Sartre understood that!

[ElDinero]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by an internal reality please? And if it's the 'soul' or such like, produce evidence that it exists?

[Cyberman]

Christianity gave you your science by promoting the idea that a God of order and universal truth would create a logical and understandable creation instead of an arbitrary and capricious one. You can argue that it has served its purpose and we've moved on since, but a hat tip would be nice.

Actually, if a hat tip is in the offing it would be to the Greeks; they were the ones who began to look at the world through the lens of naturalistic principles and thus giving us the legacy of what we noe recognise as the scientific method. Clearly many famous scientists of history right up until the nineteenth century, when the Church started to lose its stranglehold on scientific investigation, have been xtian or at least religious in some form but their contributions to science were made in addition to their personal beliefs, not directly because of them.

For example, it wasn't revelation from angels that led to Johannes Kepler discovering his Laws of Motion, nor was it some heavenly vision which gave Galileo his theory of relativity. Incidentally, while the celebrated astronomer George Ellery Hale was inspired by a vision (a green elf) to seek funding for what was then the world's largest telescope, I don't think anybody would cite that as proof of green elves.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by an internal reality please? And if it's the 'soul' or such like, produce evidence that it exists?

By internal reality I mean subjective experience. This starts with qualia and culminates in self-awareness. The proof that it is exists is the immediate and privileged access you have to your own inner life.

[thesummerqueen]

No offense - that sounds like something straight out of a Chopra book.

[frankiej]

Yeah, sounds like a load of loony shite to me.