Is it moral to kill when a cure options is available?

[Forsaken]

Only if god existed...

[Godscreated]

Is it moral to kill when a cure options is available?

When did murder need to be classified as anything but immoral?

It is said that God can do whatever he likes. He is after all, God. He created everything and can destroy it at a whim if he chooses to do so. I do not believe this but will grant it as a truth for this O P.

You have been misinformed about God, you also have not been paying attention to what many of the christians here have stated about God. Let's start again, God can do nothing outside His nature ie. will. To do that would mean God would sin and that's not possible. He did create all things, but will not destroy anything until He has passed judgement on it, since He is creator it is His right to pass judgement. His judgement falls only on the guilty.

Given that God can kill or cure, and given that we are to emulate, follow and try to be like him; it would seem that we too are to believe that sometimes it is better to kill than cure. I cannot think of any good situation to do this but that is just me. Perhaps you can.

Killing can be presented as taking life without a purpose, God never takes life without a purpose, and yes, God can and does cure physically or spiritually.

Again you're trying to misrepresent scripture either on purpose or out of ignorance, which is it? We are to be like God by trying to be as righteous as we possibly can, God has never given us the right to take life without a person being judged guilty.

Scriptures show God killing many or having men kill many. Scriptures show God curing on a few occasions but killing seems to be his preferred method.

God has cured many that have been physically, spiritually or mentally sick, Nineveh comes to mind for a spiritual healing, Christ healed many of physical ailments. God takes the life of those He has judged guilty of sin, whether He does it directly or chooses man to do so.

Life, be it from God or nature, should be venerated. God does not seem to venerate human life even as he claims man to be his most precious and loved creation and even placing us above the angels. This indicates that he should venerate our lives yet it does not seem to.

God sacrificed His Son to save man from eternal doom, and yes, He cared for the life of His Son by raising Him from the dead. God does care for mans life, He did something you would never do for mankind. Where in scripture does it say that man is above the angels.

In our human world, if a doctor who could cure his patient decided to kill him, he would be jailed and considered an evil person. In the believer world, a God who could cure and decides to kill is considered good and praised for his killing. A double standard. I hope that we will all agree that for a human to kill, when a cure option is available, is evil and immoral. If you do not; please do not reply.

Is it moral for God to kill when a cure options is available?

Does your God need to have good morals or does it matter?

Regards
DL

The doctor should rightly be jailed for such an action, that is murder, he has no right to judge when a life should end. God does not kill the sick, they die of their illness, God has said that all will fall to death because of their sin. At some point in life everyone dies, not because God withholds a cure, we suffer death because of our sin. This is a promise God made to man and he has been faithful to that promise.
God is moral, always, because He is the standard of morality, and we all fall short of that standard, so we must die for our sin, it's the penalty for being outside of God's will. Remember you're the one who granted that God was creator for this OP.

You do not follow the usual Christian take but I do have a question or two.

God is shown as killing sinners sure but he is also shown as ordering the murder of many children and babies that could not possibly be evil or sinners.

How would you justify their death?

My second question pertains to sin itself. Let my build a scenario.
If you or I were to lie to someone and cause them to pass on that lie, we would be sinners.

If God did, would he also be culpable for or guilty of sinning?

You indicated that God has morals.

I return you to my original question.

Is it moral to kill when a cure is available?

Did God have the power to cure those at Sodom and at the genocide of Noah's day?

Regards
DL

Why do you believe I do not follow the usual Christian take?

To your first question, God is omniscient and omnipresent, this gives Him the ability to see every bodies future even to the end of their lives. With this capability God can pass judgement on them and bring to fruition their punishment when it meets His will.

Do you mean death when you say pass, if so this is my answer. We would be sinning when we told the lie, not a good start, then we would be guilty of causing a death due to the lie. How God judges the death I do not know. God can not lie, He says so in scriptures, so the death part of your scenario would not happen for God.

God does not have morals, He is moral. To have would imply He some how attained morals, morality is God's nature.

God does not have the power to heal the spiritually unwilling, that would violate the freewill of choice God gave man.

So in regard to your original question, God does not pass judgement on those who accept the cure for sin, salvation. Those who reject the cure will be judged and suffer the penalty for sin. Like a doctor, God will not force you to take the cure.

[Greatest I am]

Again I cannot see his hate for Gays as a justification of smiting all the children and babies of Sodom when here again, he could have just changed their minds.

All it really says is that the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked. The group of guys that wanted to ass-rape Lot's house guests were just an example.I doubt it was an all butt-sex town.

He really chose the moral low ground in killing innocent children and babies

If innocents die in the process of purging the wicked I trust that God will provide and compensate for them in the afterlife. Joel 2:25 states that "He will restore the years that the locusts have eaten."

Not that it matters to you, but Swedenborg teaches that children who die before their reason has matured are raised by angels in heaven. If that's indeed the case the children of Sodom have the best foster care available.

You know this as a fact do you?
Or is it all hear say?

Or is it just you justifying your God killing children so that you can sleep at night?

Further. Even if you are right, scriptures show that in many cases, when God had men kill, he also ordered women raped.

Do they also get angel counselling when they eventually die?

Regards
DL

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Thats like saying is it moral for mass murderers to kill

Yes. That is what literalist Christians are saying.

Regards
DL

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GIA

You need to absorb the moral of this joke.

A reporter goes to Israel to cover the fighting. She is looking for something emotional and positive and of human interest. Something like that guy in Sarajevo who risked his life to play the cello everyday in the town square.

In Jerusalem, she heard about an old Jew who had been going to the Wailing Wall to pray, twice a day, every day, for a long, long time. So she went to check it out. She goes to the Wailing Wall and there he is!

So she watches him pray and after about 45 minutes, when he turns to leave, she approaches him for an interview.

"Rebecca Smith, CNN News. Sir, how long have you been coming to the Wall and praying?"

"For about 50 years."

"What do you pray for?"

"For peace between the Jews and the Arabs. For all the hatred to stop. For our children to grow up in safety and friendship."

"How do you feel after doing this for 50 years?"

"Like I'm talking to a fucking wall."

Love it.

Regards
DL

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The reverse precedent of God changing Pharaoh's heart from good to evil came before the flood so I do not think your argument above has any merit.

I really do hate to hang on the meaning of Hebrew words, but....The word that was translated in "hardened" ChZQ or Hazek, which means "to strengthen." In the example you used, God strengthened the conviction that was already in Pharaoh. Symbolically, 'Pharaoh' stands for the part of self that rules over factual knowledge. Meaning when we hold too fast to facts stored in memory, and see only what is directly in front of us, we miss out on things of deeper importance.

Yes you have.

Learn from those who have not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Regards
DL

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Only if god existed...

Even if he did, how is it more moral to kill than cure?

Regards
DL

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[ Like a doctor, God will not force you to take the cure.

But he will force us to take death.

Quite a double standard.

You have not justified the murders of your God.

Regards
DL

[Neo-Scholastic]

[quote='ChadWooters' pid='268068' dateline='1333591090'] I really do hate to hang on the meaning of Hebrew words, but…

... we miss out on things of deeper importance.

Yes you have.

I do not understand your reply. Are you saying that I am clinging to semantics or not seeing something of deeper importance? And in what way was the video meant to instruct me?

[Greatest I am]

[quote='ChadWooters' pid='268068' dateline='1333591090'] I really do hate to hang on the meaning of Hebrew words, but…

... we miss out on things of deeper importance.

Yes you have.

I do not understand your reply. Are you saying that I am clinging to semantics or not seeing something of deeper importance? And in what way was the video meant to instruct me?

You spoke of God hardening hearts.
I thought you would learn something from the3 Jewish perspective that is opposed to yours.
I guess you missed the instructions on judging that type of situation.

God in Egypt is shown as creating the condition himself to facilitate his murdering Egypt's first born.

That is one S O B of a God.

Right?

Regards
DL

[Godscreated]

[ Like a doctor, God will not force you to take the cure.

But he will force us to take death.

Quite a double standard.

You have not justified the murders of your God.

Regards
DL

You gave me questions to answer and I did and this is the only reply you have, it is a weak one at that. God forces no one to die, death is the result of sin, one sin against God and death is the result. Now if you desired to live forever, in your present body, all you needed to accomplish is not committing a sin. Since this is impossible you have a second choice, thanks to God's everlasting love, choose Christ as your redeemer, not trying to preach here, just including a fact according to scripture.
Since you did not respond to the other answers I gave does this mean you accept them as truth?
By the way if a doctor does not force you to take your meds is he forcing you to die, or is he allowing you to be an idiot as freewill allows.

[Neo-Scholastic]

By the way if a doctor does not force you to take your meds is he forcing you to die, or is he allowing you to be an idiot as freewill allows.

Thief! You stole my analogy.

[Greatest I am]

[ Like a doctor, God will not force you to take the cure.

But he will force us to take death.

Quite a double standard.

You have not justified the murders of your God.

Regards
DL

You gave me questions to answer and I did and this is the only reply you have, it is a weak one at that. God forces no one to die,

He did not force people to die at Sodom or with his flood in Noah's day?

They forced death onto themselves in your view?????

death is the result of sin, one sin against God and death is the result.

What sin were the babies in the instances above guilty of?

Now if you desired to live forever, in your present body, all you needed to accomplish is not committing a sin. Since this is impossible you have a second choice, thanks to God's everlasting love, choose Christ as your redeemer, not trying to preach here, just including a fact according to scripture.

Thanks for showing that it impossible to do something and because we cannot, we are condemned for not being able to do what is not possible.
Thus showing the complete injustice of your God.

Since you did not respond to the other answers I gave does this mean you accept them as truth?

No.

By the way if a doctor does not force you to take your meds is he forcing you to die, or is he allowing you to be an idiot as freewill allows.

Option two.

Compare that to your God killing and not allowing free will.

Regards
DL

[Godscreated]

[ Like a doctor, God will not force you to take the cure.

But he will force us to take death.

Quite a double standard.

You have not justified the murders of your God.

Regards
DL

You gave me questions to answer and I did and this is the only reply you have, it is a weak one at that. God forces no one to die,

He did not force people to die at Sodom or with his flood in Noah's day?

They forced death onto themselves in your view?????

death is the result of sin, one sin against God and death is the result.

What sin were the babies in the instances above guilty of?

Now if you desired to live forever, in your present body, all you needed to accomplish is not committing a sin. Since this is impossible you have a second choice, thanks to God's everlasting love, choose Christ as your redeemer, not trying to preach here, just including a fact according to scripture.

Thanks for showing that it impossible to do something and because we cannot, we are condemned for not being able to do what is not possible.
Thus showing the complete injustice of your God.

Since you did not respond to the other answers I gave does this mean you accept them as truth?

No.

By the way if a doctor does not force you to take your meds is he forcing you to die, or is he allowing you to be an idiot as freewill allows.

Option two.

Compare that to your God killing and not allowing free will.

Regards
DL

All I know to say to you, is this, you do not care to reason, you use answers that are deliberately use to point away from a question you have no answers to. If you can not carry on a reasonable debate that you started, and respond to answers to questions you asked, then you should not expect others to answer your questions.

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By the way if a doctor does not force you to take your meds is he forcing you to die, or is he allowing you to be an idiot as freewill allows.

Thief! You stole my analogy.

Sorry Chadwooters, did not mean to steal anything.