Same sex marriage

[liam]

Oh go fuck yourself. Not once have I denied that people are racist bigots just like you. Quite the fucking contrary.

Asserting 'reality' does NOT however give you the 'moral superiority' to claim it to be perfectly fine to be racist.

It's like saying "Oh well there are people who think it's okay to rape young girls, so I think it's okay to rape young girls, and I have the moral superiority to think so".

Fucking ludicrous.

And you obviously have not denied that the majority of earth's population are like this, as we are fractured into nation states, and even have different languages and cultures by which we associate ourselves, how dare we.
Obviously, if we were as you, we would all speak esperanto. Why don't you start by teaching us your moral superiority in this issue by renouncing your national identity first?
I am merely being a realist when I embrace my own people before everyone else. Everyone does this, but not everyone can speak up.
I can, and I do not fear naive do-gooders like you.
It is indeed perfectly fine, as the natural order of the world commands you to be one.
On the other hand, the natural order of the world does not require you to rape girls. I don't know why you chose to give such an irrelevant example.

While I will openly admit this has nothing to do with me the entire argument that you have put forward has offended me on a personal level because ignorance and stupidity seem to have such an effect on me.

Your first point is not a rebuttal of anything that has been leveled against you, provides no support for your argument and just generally seems like a sign that you have misunderstood what is being said, if so, put your hand up and a teacher will be with you shortly, otherwise don't make points about nothing because this is somewhere between ignorant and stupid. Stating that there are nations would not necessarily mean that everyone everywhere is a bigot and conducts themselves as you do, you claim that this is the reason for your overt display of racism. This is, quite evidently, pure horseshit, racists are racist because they are ignorant and intolerant, don't blame your society for that, blame your religion if you will but that's another argument altogether and not one I want to get bogged down in.

Don't assume that placing the needs of humanity over the needs of a society is a traitorous act, I actively renounce my ties to this nation and you have no reason to believe that others have not and so to assume that he has and thus judge him is a lovely mix of (yet more) bigotry and judgemental attitude.

There is no level of realism in what you have just said, to place your own people above others can be labelled as nothing more than arrogance and is simply the first step towards genocidal tendencies. Furthermore, you cannot assume that everyone is a racist simply because you are, you are a racist, I am not, most other people are not and any attempt to convince anyone else simply by using yourself as an example will reveal you to be nothing more than a backwards-thinking nationalist.
What I also take issue with is your condemning attitude towards 'dogooders', surely you cannot be attaching derogatory attitudes to the pursuit of good conduct and if you are this would further support the idea that you are simply fucking stupid. Nobody hates a do-gooder, there is no naivety in acting well towards your fellow human and to assert that there is is the justification of an immoral arsehole who is drowning in his own arguments' inadequacies. Do not claim that the moral are wrong for being so as this seems pretty contradictory.

The natural order of things does not require you to place yourself upon a pedestal and praise your nation for nothing at all, nor does it give you the right to consider other races less worthy than yourself you self-righteous idiot. Furthermore, you state that you prefer the Turkish to others, I'm going to lay some truth on you here, Turkey doesn't exist It is a set of lines drawn on paper by some territorial idiots hundreds or thousands of years ago, you have no right to self-promote based on this simple and valueless concept of a country. Grow the fuck up, pull your head out of your arse and take a look at the real world, maybe you'll see that people are all equal.

Also, as a brief caveat, society is not a single being, it is a complex interplay of people and to regard the individual as most important is nothing but true, otherwise we would create a paternalistic state where the people simply do not exist as anything other than the molecules of a solid society, jesus, in future please think about what you write before you post?

that is all.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Yeah you're right I haven't, unless you think otherwise. If so please tell me where I said this as I'm curious to know exactly what the fuck I'm thinking because obviously you know exactly what the fuck I'm thinking before I've even fucking thought about fucking thinking it.

Since you do not deny this, why on all earth do you expect the earth to confrom with you unrealistic expectations?

Oh look! You're thinking for me again! How fucking nice of you...

I guess you know all about my political and social views and how I actually do not give a flying fuck if this world was one big country or hundreds of separate ones.

Oh now you're playing the callous one.
If you view humanity as a single family, I was expecting to hear some sort of a solution to how this would be archived.

Naive do-gooder? HAHA. I'm actually quite complimented by this obscene misjudgement of my character.

If I have misjudged you on each and every accord, maybe it's time you've presented your view to me, and let me judge you accordingly.

The natural order of the world commands jack shit. It is you who is naive. Grow a fucking brain please.

You're not really making a statement. I consider my own statement to be still firm than.

Because it perfectly demonstrated the line of thinking you are taking. Herpa fucking derp Einstein.

It does not.

While I will openly admit this has nothing to do with me the entire argument that you have put forward has offended me on a personal level because ignorance and stupidity seem to have such an effect on me.

First and foremost, thank you for the time you took to reply.

Your first point is not a rebuttal of anything that has been leveled against you, provides no support for your argument and just generally seems like a sign that you have misunderstood what is being said, if so, put your hand up and a teacher will be with you shortly, otherwise don't make points about nothing because this is somewhere between ignorant and stupid. Stating that there are nations would not necessarily mean that everyone everywhere is a bigot and conducts themselves as you do, you claim that this is the reason for your overt display of racism.

The fact that there are different nations around is a testimony that different people do not wish to live together unless they are brought together by financial means, like in the US, where different nations give up their previous identity for a new one. For those who are still attached to their old identity, the only solution is a nation state.
This is a clear demonstration of ethnocentrism.

This is, quite evidently, pure horseshit, racists are racist because they are ignorant and intolerant, don't blame your society for that, blame your religion if you will but that's another argument altogether and not one I want to get bogged down in.

Well, your assumptions are incorrect at best.
I don't know of what I am so ignorant of, but I could tell you that I am intolerant against everything that is in contrast to my nation. I'm sure that this is only natural to be against things that are not in favour of your nation.
Besides, why do you think that my religion if I ever had any, has anything to do with it?

Don't assume that placing the needs of humanity over the needs of a society is a traitorous act, I actively renounce my ties to this nation and you have no reason to believe that others have not and so to assume that he has and thus judge him is a lovely mix of (yet more) bigotry and judgemental attitude.

But friend, if you take "humanity" as a concept, you're simply taking humanity as a bigger society.
If you renounce your ties, do so. Good that someone is in consistancy with his own damn views. But where will you live now? How will you use any public services that are fuelled by the taxes of your nation?
Really, I wonder, where exactly will humanity take care of you?

There is no level of realism in what you have just said, to place your own people above others can be labelled as nothing more than arrogance and is simply the first step towards genocidal tendencies.

As I said, if there is no realism in my words, why are there different countries and nations? People do actually put their nation before other nations, for that reason they actually bother with a different country, yes?
And you're presenting before me thing that are rather cliche and without basis.

Furthermore, you cannot assume that everyone is a racist simply because you are, you are a racist, I am not, most other people are not and any attempt to convince anyone else simply by using yourself as an example will reveal you to be nothing more than a backwards-thinking nationalist.

Well, not everyone can be a racist, for not everyone is a member of a real race. I am a member of a very old and deep rooted race of people-the Turks, whose existence has been documented well before Christ, unlike some others who are made-up ethnicities, and have no real basis to call themselves a "race" of people.
I do not try to convince you though. I know that people like yourselves cannot be convinced as you lack any ethnic or national consciousness, seeing how eager you were to renounce your national ties, eh?

What I also take issue with is your condemning attitude towards 'dogooders', surely you cannot be attaching derogatory attitudes to the pursuit of good conduct and if you are this would further support the idea that you are simply fucking stupid. Nobody hates a do-gooder, there is no naivety in acting well towards your fellow human and to assert that there is is the justification of an immoral arsehole who is drowning in his own arguments' inadequacies. Do not claim that the moral are wrong for being so as this seems pretty contradictory.

Do-gooders are people that mean it well, but do not really take anything anywhere.
Besides, I act quite well towards my "fellow humans", I'm always polite and always nice. However, national goals are a different thing. Under that context, I must take my own people into consideration before everyone else. How else could I call them "national goals".

The natural order of things does not require you to place yourself upon a pedestal and praise your nation for nothing at all,

I praise my nation on the basis of our past archivements, and the future we have before ourselves.

nor does it give you the right to consider other races less worthy than yourself you self-righteous idiot.

It does. I determine worth in how well one serves the Turkish nation.
Anyone who does not serve this nation is not really something of a real worth in my eyes. As an individual, they might be friends or something. But comrades, brothers, they are not. Not on the same level.

Furthermore, you state that you prefer the Turkish to others, I'm going to lay some truth on you here, Turkey doesn't exist It is a set of lines drawn on paper by some territorial idiots hundreds or thousands of years ago, you have no right to self-promote based on this simple and valueless concept of a country.

Turkey's current borders were drawn and accepted at the Lausanne conference, and these borders were not drawn by "idiots" as you call them, but people who have resisted invasions and spilled their own blood to create space for our nation to live on. Now we have our eyes on a much larger space, called Turan, encompassing all of our people.
If we were given our country by some other people, like without actually doing anything, yes, it would be without much value to me, but our ancestors have given their lives throughout centuries for these lands, and they are marked by the blood of our fallen. I'm sure you do not respect the dead, nor any martyrs, nor the noble purpose that they have died for, but I certainly do. You spit on anything that is holy in this world, but for that reason, you are worthless in my eyes still.
Any non-Turk, that has a shred of national pride, is still a worthy adversary or a noble friend in my eyes, but the likes of you generally amount to not much, due to having no greater purpose in life but to eat, drink and have fun. Therefore I do not even take you seriously when you speak to me of humanism, as I'm certain that none of you had rendered any service to mankind at all....

Grow the fuck up, pull your head out of your arse and take a look at the real world, maybe you'll see that people are all equal.

As I said, if all people are equal, how does it come that you're able to eat pizza while the people in Africa are starving?
Go and share a slice with them, if you're all about equality.

Also, as a brief caveat, society is not a single being, it is a complex interplay of people and to regard the individual as most important is nothing but true, otherwise we would create a paternalistic state where the people simply do not exist as anything other than the molecules of a solid society, jesus, in future please think about what you write before you post?

This is why I said that people are not above society, as people may not exist without society.
Besides, that is the purpose of a society. To be a solid structure. Society defines you. Else how would you define your form of conduct? How would you acquire your traditions?

[Epimethean]

Is society a static thing only, in your opinion, KM?

Somehow, I am picturing T Rex in a smoking jacket ...

[kılıç_mehmet]

Is society a static thing only, in your opinion, KM?

Somehow, I am picturing T Rex in a smoking jacket ...

Just like everything, the main ideal behind it stays the same.

[Napoléon]

I give up with you Mehmet I really do. You're an ignorant bigot who uses no other reasoning other than "that's the way the world is" to defend your ludicrous racism.

As for you judging me, and presenting your own opinion of me as though that is actually what I think, you can do so on what I've posted here on these forums and nothing more, as that is all you and anyone else has to go on. The fact that you are flagrantly misinterpreting my views based on nothing but your own preconception and, you guessed it, ignorance, is insulting and also rather illuminating to the kind of character you have yourself.

Good day to you sir. I've had enough of this pissing contest and I'll let the thread get back to what it was originally concerning. Gay marriage.

[Welsh cake]

Well, not everyone can be a racist, for not everyone is a member of a real race. I am a member of a very old and deep rooted race of people-the Turks, whose existence has been documented well before Christ, unlike some others who are made-up ethnicities, and have no real basis to call themselves a "race" of people.

Such as?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_ethnic_groups

[kılıç_mehmet]

Well, not everyone can be a racist, for not everyone is a member of a real race. I am a member of a very old and deep rooted race of people-the Turks, whose existence has been documented well before Christ, unlike some others who are made-up ethnicities, and have no real basis to call themselves a "race" of people.

Such as?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_ethnic_groups

I have said as much as I could about that one before.
The welsh are a part of the celtic race. What are the "english", if you can answer me?

---

I give up with you Mehmet I really do. You're an ignorant bigot who uses no other reasoning other than "that's the way the world is" to defend your ludicrous racism.

As for you judging me, and presenting your own opinion of me as though that is actually what I think, you can do so on what I've posted here on these forums and nothing more, as that is all you and anyone else has to go on. The fact that you are flagrantly misinterpreting my views based on nothing but your own preconception and, you guessed it, ignorance, is insulting and also rather illuminating to the kind of character you have yourself.

Good day to you sir. I've had enough of this pissing contest and I'll let the thread get back to what it was originally concerning. Gay marriage.

Whatever, I've done nothing but to state the same things as before.

[Ben Davis]

Mehmet, it's really very simple: you're clearly not prepared to accept that racism & nationalism cause harm in spite of repeated explanations and encouragement to learn more about the position you hold. Until you realise that you have a lot to learn, I don't see the value in discussing your views on race any further with you. You've already embarrased yourself and in spite of what you think to be true, the whole of humanity is lucky that your views are in the minority, globally.

To the OP, why do your views on ethnic consciousness lead you to think that same-sex marriages should not be allowed?



p.s. All - sorry for the derail, I was flabbergasted at what I was reading and couldn't let Mehmet's comments go by unchallenged.

[Faith No More]

Well, you're going to have to learn to just let it go, because he turns nearly every thread he involves himself in into a pulpit for the 'superior Turkish race.'

[Ben Davis]

Well, you're going to have to learn to just let it go, because he turns nearly every thread he involves himself in into a pulpit for the 'superior Turkish race.'

I shall be guided by your wisdom.





*edit: I've just read the 'Blasphemy II' thread. I had no idea...