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RE: Creationism = Pure Freaking Magic
May 29, 2012 at 10:09 pm
(May 29, 2012 at 6:49 pm)Undeceived Wrote: That's the question you should ask yourself. In the beginning of our universe there was a spike of energy. If you think material existed before that spike, where did it get its energy? And where did the energy come from before that? We move into infinite regress. Every energy output requires an energy input. Where did the chain start? Or has it been going on for eternity just like the Christian God?
That question is and has been asked, omitting the very last sentence, as it has no place in the discussion.
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RE: Creationism = Pure Freaking Magic
May 29, 2012 at 10:16 pm
(This post was last modified: May 29, 2012 at 10:22 pm by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
(May 28, 2012 at 1:51 pm)Minimalist Wrote: They had an excuse for believing such utter nonsense. You do not.
QFTMFT.
(May 29, 2012 at 3:38 am)Undeceived Wrote: Zoroaster. Zoroaster led a short-lived religion of sorts. Since no God is involved, it has been the long-standing view of the church (and therefore society) that demons were involved. If demons were involved, that would indeed mean supernatural. Without the help of spirits, however, all forms of magic have, in thought, relied on shifting powers in the natural world.......blah blah blah etc...
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RE: Creationism = Pure Freaking Magic
May 29, 2012 at 10:37 pm
Quote:Zoroaster. Zoroaster led a short-lived religion of sorts.
You should show more respect. Zoroaster born some time before 1000 BC founded a religion that exists to this day in parts of India and Iran. Moreover, since Zoroastrianism predates your xtian bullshit and invented all sorts of the happy horseshit ( god, devil, heaven, hell, etc) that you think is so unique you are partly one yourself.
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RE: Creationism = Pure Freaking Magic
May 30, 2012 at 12:15 am
(May 29, 2012 at 6:49 pm)Undeceived Wrote:
(May 29, 2012 at 5:15 am)Zen Badger Wrote: You've never heard of the CMB (Cosmic Microwave Background) then. Thank you, I'll add that to my list. But again, nothing about CMB screams "Big Bang" over God. All we know is there was a burst of energy from a central point.
Apart from it being evidence for the big bang, whereas there is no evidence for your god.
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If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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RE: Creationism = Pure Freaking Magic
May 30, 2012 at 1:04 am
(May 29, 2012 at 6:49 pm)Undeceived Wrote: That's the question you should ask yourself. In the beginning of our universe there was a spike of energy. If you think material existed before that spike, where did it get its energy? And where did the energy come from before that? We move into infinite regress. Every energy output requires an energy input. Where did the chain start? Or has it been going on for eternity just like the Christian God?
And the answers to those questions are: we don't know if material existed before that spike, but there is no reason to believe that it didn't. We have no idea what happened then, so it stands to reason that we have no idea what happened before that. So while infinite regress cannot be ruled in, it also cannot be ruled out. We don't know where the chain started or if the chain started, but we have no reason to count out the eternity model. In short, unlike you and your god, we don't pull answers out of our ass.
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RE: Creationism = Pure Freaking Magic
May 30, 2012 at 8:19 am
Quote:So while infinite regress cannot be ruled in, it also cannot be ruled out.
WHAT THE FRONT LAWN! Am I hearing this from an atheist?
You cannot explain the complex with something more complex. Infinite regress explains aptly the problem with the god concept.
We certainly don't pull answers out of our ass, true. But there are things that we can discard without losing sleep over it, god concepts are things we can discard.
The question is, was there something, or nothing, in either case a cognition is not required.
The believer wants to insert a who in as a cause as if the universe was invented, like a car or toy. Instead, the reality is that it simply uncognitively transitioned, like the seasons change. No one thinks the earth is a thinking being. No one thinks the sun is a thinking being. So why would the origins of the universe need a cognition anymore than the seasons need a cognition.
The universe was a product of conditions and climate on a quantum level, not magical beings.
Infinite regress is a very valid argument against the superstitious god claims of humans
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