No need to avoid sinning, all is forgiven?

[Darwinian]

You can't push the burden of proof onto your imaginary friend. If you claim there is a god, the burden of proof is on you. Either you can back it up or you can't.

Every instance of 'proof' ever recorded as being demonstrated has come from God himself. If you believe it is up to Christians to proove anything you simply do not understand God or the religion that repersents him. In short because God is in control of who has the proof to believe. He gives that 'proof' to all who follow His perscribed path. Nothing has changed in the last 2000 years that would allow or rather force a disbeliever into a belief. This would eliminate the reason we have been given this life.

If you believe their is 'proof' of belief outside of what God offers to the believer then please show scriptural proof, that such a thing exists. Otherwise know you like the rest of us are bound by the paradyme God has established. In that He alone is in a position to provide proof of His own existance. If you do not have 'proof' it is because God does not want you to have it, and know it will be hidden from you with all of the power God has until you humble yourself before Him and Ask, Seek and Knock for it as luke 11 has directed.

But don't you understand that everything you have stated is your own view, your own claim that you are positively making.

A claim for which the burden of proof is on you to prove and a claim for which you have zero evidence!

You're basically saying that..

We don't need to prove anything as all proof comes from God and we know all proof comes from God as God says so and we know God is real because the Bible tells us so and we know the Bible is true as it is the word of God and we don't need to prove it's the word of God because all proof come from God and.... around we go again!

[Drich]

So your god hands down incomplete laws? What's up with that?

Again this is more evidence that you were never apart of a church. How do you not know the division between the Old testamentand the New after 20 years?

So when Jesus says something it's law? Then let me ask you this, have you sold everything you own and given the money to the poor as Jesus commands in Luke 12:33? If not, why not?

I did and it was given back 20x maybe 30x's over. (Granted it is alot easier when you have little to nothing to begin with.)
Not only was everything material offered to God, i gave of myself, my time and my all in all.(This was a little harder)
It was given back and I was given a new direction (Read my thread on messenger/Message)
One that I have been faithful to thus far.

Many times. He never spoke back.

What did you say?

Nope.

Did you make yourself known to him? Did you give your all in all?

How could I possibly be in "the wrong place" when this deity is supposedly everywhere?

Because You were told to be at X, but you are waiting at Y speaking into an empty box. It's not that God is not at X, It's just He is not going to reach out to you till you meet Him where He told you to be, at Y.

If the President Tells you to meet His at the White House on such and such date/time, do you wait at the Wendy's up the street a day late and demand that He meet you there? If you would not do this for the head of one country, why do you think you can do this with God? Understand God is not here to serve you, or to do magic tricks for you till your convinced that He exists.

If you want to know God He has given you a very narrow path to follow, One that He promises to respond to. This is your invitation. If you do not respond according to the instructions He left then He will simply move on without you. God does not Need you like you need Him. You are not in a position to bargin or reason.

I need "attonement" for getting angry? For gossiping? For wanting more for myself? Not buying it.

You need attonement for any and all of the things you have thought said or did not in the expressed will of God.

Great! So being a serial child molester/rapist/murderer means you can still get into eternal paradise! SWEET!

While men with millions of 'good gandi deeds are eternally seperated. I have heard Jeffery Dalmer's testimony, if his heart matches his words he will be in Heaven. He might be a popper, but he will be there.

Then your deity sets the bar incredibly low for entry into paradise.

The bar was set low at the price of His son.

Q: Do you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior?

Yes.

CONGRATULATIONS! You're in!

Seriously you think this is all that it takes? Do you have actual scripture, or is this more from your 20 years?

Who's asking for "magic tricks"? How about simply appearing to me and letting me know he exists? Is that too much for this deity to handle?

Again, who are you that the Creator of the Universe must appear before you when He is summoned? Does that work with the leaders of our nations for you? Does it work with celeberities you are interested in meeting? does it even work with your mom everytime you summon her? What about your dog? Yet the single most powerful enity in existance, who spoke the universe into creation is supposed to appear to You of all people, when ever you summoned Him?

Or do you simply not understand what your asking? Are you being too familiar with what you do not understand? The Creator of Everything has set a perscribed path or issued a very specific set of instructions for all who want to Find Him. All anyone must do is follow that path, and He will be at the end of it. If you want to see God FOLLOW HIS PATH! Understand in the History of Man, God has never chased down and begged for anyone's attention. So why would you think He would do this for you?

I have no doubt I could spend the next 50 years seeking your deity and I'd still come up empty.

Only if you spent that 50 years doing what you have done in the last 20.

It is if you want to come here and tell us your god is real.

You even misunderstand what I am doing here. i am here to provide clarity for any and all who seek God. In other words if you want to know if God is real i will point you in the direction He has left for us. I am not here to take away any deeply held 'religious' beliefs about God with stronger evidence that what you have burried your head into. This would defeat the purpose you have been given this life. (To choose for yourself without the influence of the Glory of God where you want to spend eternity.)

You've received proof? Great! What is it? Because you'd be the first one here to ever provide it.

I have provided all the proof needed for me, in my thread message/messenger. Again this was My proof. God is waiting (via promises He has made) to provide you with exactly what you need to see and hear. If you can follow the path perscribed in scripture, by humbling yourself before God and allow Him to lift you up. You start this process by Asking Seeking and Knocking as outlined in Luke 11.

---

Every instance of 'proof' ever recorded as being demonstrated has come from God himself. If you believe it is up to Christians to proove anything you simply do not understand God or the religion that repersents him. In short because God is in control of who has the proof to believe. He gives that 'proof' to all who follow His perscribed path. Nothing has changed in the last 2000 years that would allow or rather force a disbeliever into a belief. This would eliminate the reason we have been given this life.

If you believe their is 'proof' of belief outside of what God offers to the believer then please show scriptural proof, that such a thing exists. Otherwise know you like the rest of us are bound by the paradyme God has established. In that He alone is in a position to provide proof of His own existance. If you do not have 'proof' it is because God does not want you to have it, and know it will be hidden from you with all of the power God has until you humble yourself before Him and Ask, Seek and Knock for it as luke 11 has directed.

But don't you understand that everything you have stated is your own view, your own claim that you are positively making.

A claim for which the burden of proof is on you to prove and a claim for which you have zero evidence!

You're basically saying that..

We don't need to prove anything as all proof comes from God and we know all proof comes from God as God says so and we know God is real because the Bible tells us so and we know the Bible is true as it is the word of God and we don't need to prove it's the word of God because all proof come from God and.... around we go again!

What I am saying is that you are asking for Proof of the God of the bible are you not? If yes then please show in the bible where proof has been provided outside of what God has provided. You are asking that i disprove God for you. For He has told us He hides Himself from people like you. That means If I can provide proof of God that make the God of the bible a liar, therefore not God.

That is why none have been able to provide anything that God has not commissioned Himself. That is also why you have been told that if you want proof then seek it from God yourself. For no one can provide proof of the God of the Bible, as He Hides himself from people like you.

[Ace Otana]

Every instance of 'proof' ever recorded as being demonstrated has come from God himself. If you believe it is up to Christians to proove anything you simply do not understand God or the religion that repersents him.

So I take it you cannot back up your claim that a god exists then? That's all you had to say, Drich.
Remember, you like other theists presented the claim to me and so I ask for some evidence from you (the claimer). I don't believe a god exists because I've seen no evidence to suggest that he does. No point asking a being for which I don't believe exists for evidence that'll never arrive.
It's not down to me to prove or disprove anything.

I could do as you say and seek this god of yours but I'll find nothing. Also if I said I believed I'll be lying to both you and myself. I have by the way looked into it numerous times in the past, but each time came to the same conclusion that it's nothing more than a crazy belief from misguided religious men. I've finished examining the god claim and have rejected it.
The ball is in your court, it's your move.

[Cato]

I haven't claimed anything God has. What's more He gave a very strict set of guidelines for those seeking Him to find Him. He also told us that for those who do not follow those guide lines they will be confused and blinded so they can find nothing.. Until they learn to seek God as He has commanded.

Again if you want proof it is between you and God to work it out.

'As he commanded'?. This is rich. Does it ever bother you that a majority of people that have ever lived, or ever will, have not the slightest idea of your god's 'guidelines' simply because of the geographical accident of their birth?

[Darwinian]

What I am saying is that you are asking for Proof of the God of the bible are you not? If yes then please show in the bible where proof has been provided outside of what God has provided. You are asking that i disprove God for you. For He has told us He hides Himself from people like you. That means If I can provide proof of God that make the God of the bible a liar, therefore not God.

That is why none have been able to provide anything that God has not commissioned Himself. That is also why you have been told that if you want proof then seek it from God yourself. For no one can provide proof of the God of the Bible, as He Hides himself from people like you.

Why would the creator of all reality hide himself from those of his creation that see no evidence of his existence? That makes no sense. Or maybe I would say that because I haven't been exposed to the truth

So, there is no way to prove to a sceptic that God exists unless you actually reach out and ask that being, who you don't think exists, personally.

Can you see why so many people have trouble with this?

[Tobie]

What I am saying is that you are asking for Proof of the God of the bible are you not? If yes then please show in the bible where proof has been provided outside of what God has provided. You are asking that i disprove God for you. For He has told us He hides Himself from people like you. That means If I can provide proof of God that make the God of the bible a liar, therefore not God.

That is why none have been able to provide anything that God has not commissioned Himself. That is also why you have been told that if you want proof then seek it from God yourself. For no one can provide proof of the God of the Bible, as He Hides himself from people like you.

Why would the creator of all reality hide himself from those of his creation that see no evidence of his existence? That makes no sense. Or maybe I would say that because I haven't been exposed to the truth

So, there is no way to prove to a sceptic that God exists unless you actually reach out and ask that being, who you don't think exists, personally.

Can you see why so many people have trouble with this?

Seems like God has shot himself in his almighty foot.

[Darwinian]

When someone hides themselves it normally means they don't want to be found

[Faith No More]

The more I hear about this Yaweh fellow the more I am reminded of Andy Kaufman. He's just playing one giant cosmic joke on humanity for nothing more than his own amusement.

[Drich]

So I take it you cannot back up your claim that a god exists then?

Noope, as 'proof' outside of God's will to provide it would be proof of the non existence of God, seeking 'proof' outside of what God offers simply does not follow.

That's all you had to say, Drich.

I have been saying this since my first day here. where have you been?

Remember, you like other theists presented the claim to me and so I ask for some evidence from you (the claimer). I don't believe a god exists because I've seen no evidence to suggest that he does. No point asking a being for which I don't believe exists for evidence that'll never arrive.
It's not down to me to prove or disprove anything.

Nor is it up to an honest and knowledgeable Theist. As these Are God's promises and not our own. All we can hope to do is point you to the directions we have been given to seek proof/God.

I could do as you say and seek this god of yours but I'll find nothing.

Or you can Find what God has promised, and then where would you be? If you remained in your current system of belief then you would directly be denying God. (as if plausible deniablity is an option.) If you accept His invitation then you will have to leave your comfort zone. from your current perspective you lose in every way unless you simply scoff and demand what you know God will not Grant from your current position. As if this would be an acceptable excuse.

Also if I said I believed I'll be lying to both you and myself.

You don't have to believe to have the tiniest bit of faith God has asked for. (Faith of a mustard seed To follow his instruction.) True belief is always predicated on some type of proof. Or do you really believe the atheist propaganda that their really is no proof of God? There is proof just not on demand proof. God tailors a response for you specifically. He gives you what you need in the quantity needed to get you started. and if you are faithful to what you have been given he will give you a little more, and it continues till all doubt is gone.

I have by the way looked into it numerous times in the past, but each time came to the same conclusion that it's nothing more than a crazy belief from misguided religious men. I've finished examining the god claim and have rejected it.
The ball is in your court, it's your move.

Your effort is not consistent with what has been commanded of you. If you have failed it is because you have not followed the instruction that have been given.

Looking for signs or demanding events or occurrences to happen is not 'looking into' anything. Give an honest effort and you will get an honest result. Also know you are not playing verbal tennis with God. It's more like racket ball, in that no matter how hard you hit the ball or where, it always comes back to you. For I have found what I needed, do you want to find what you need?

---

'As he commanded'?. This is rich. Does it ever bother you that a majority of people that have ever lived, or ever will, have not the slightest idea of your god's 'guidelines' simply because of the geographical accident of their birth?

So?

---

Why would the creator of all reality hide himself from those of his creation that see no evidence of his existence? That makes no sense. Or maybe I would say that because I haven't been exposed to the truth

Because Where would true choice be IF there was undeniable proof of God? As it is now your doubt allows you to live a life that allows your heart to make a choice about where you want to spend eternity, Apart from trying to make it influenced by the Glory of God. If God did not hide Himself from unbelievers, then all unbelievers (even those who hate God) would be forced to declare allegiance to Him simply as an act of self preservation. If this were to happen then what would the point of this life be?

So, there is no way to prove to a septic that God exists unless you actually reach out and ask that being, who you don't think exists, personally.

Yes

Can you see why so many people have trouble with this?

Can you see the problem with having undeniable proof?

As it is those who Love God will find Him those who do not are able to find a reason not to find Him. This is the basic essence of 'Free will.'

[Ace Otana]

I have been saying this since my first day here. where have you been?

Arguing with other theists.

Nor is it up to an honest and knowledgeable Theist. As these Are God's promises and not our own.

If you make a claim the burden is on you. You can't push it onto some made up character.

Or you can Find what God has promised, and then where would you be? If you remained in your current system of belief then you would directly be denying God.

How can I deny something I genuinely don't believe exists? Besides if the promise is heaven then I'll pass. Remember, I don't want to go to some afterlife.

Your effort is not consistent with what has been commanded of you. If you have failed it is because you have not followed the instruction that have been given.

Really? I've had religion in my face from an early age. Listened to preachers, even joined a boy's brigade. I've given it careful thought and genuinely looked into personal feelings, and after all that I'm STILL an atheist. Just because you're easily convinced doesn't mean I am. So far I've seen insufficient reason to believe in any of it.
Remember, it's the claim I'm challenging, not god. Seeing as I don't believe god even exists.

Some atheists were once strong believers and for many years. They notice how much of a lie it is and walk away. Just because people don't believe in the same stuff you do does not mean they're ignorant or just don't understand.