Why do you not believe in God?

[Taqiyya Mockingbird]

Because if they are merely hallucinating then the rest of us are correct to assume they are batshit crazy.

BTW, proof is the wrong word. I'd settle for evidence. All I can ever seem to get from xtians is mental masturbation about the fucking "god" that they have concocted, though.

So if they don't provide evidence, then they're hallucinating? Anytime someone beliefs a proposition without evidence for that proposition, they're "hallucinating"? That doesn't seem like the right word.

Disingenuous intentional misquote much?

[Zen Badger]

Very true, maybe one day it will be shown that god exists.

How?

Buggered if I know mate.

I seriously doubt it ever will.

But then I also thought science wouldn't be able to look back past the big bang and now it appears they have.

So never say never.

[Ace Otana]

How?

Buggered if I know mate.

I seriously doubt it ever will.

But then I also thought science wouldn't be able to look back past the big bang and now it appears they have.

So never say never.

Don't think we can disprove the existence of a god, however I don't think it matters because I think it's very possible and inevitable that we'll prove that a god isn't required for anything and in which case his/it's very existence would lack any necessity to exist. So far we do have evidence to suggest that a god is not, nor ever was required. Good enough for me.

[fr0d0]

Ace you're dribbling! *calls Ace's nurse*

[Ace Otana]

Ace you're dribbling! *calls Ace's nurse*

What would you expect?! I've been through Summer's naughty pics again this morning. Got an erection that fast I got a whiplash.

How are ya Frodo?

[Whateverist]

All I use is the basic logical principle that something cannot cause itself to exist and the scientific evidence for an absolute beginning to the universe, and there is a good argument for God.

I would have thought this was a problem for gods existing, not an argument in favor. How exactly does God get away with causing Himself to exist?

However, even if the Kalaam cosmological argument fails, and all others for God do too, all that would follow would be that we have no argument to prove God exists… not that we cannot know God exists or that he does not exist.

Agreed. In the absence of evidence and arguments based on the same it is disingenuous to attempt to persuade another person to adopt your beliefs. You may reasonably hold what beliefs you will but then I reserve the same right for myself. Or you could try rhetoric and deception .. if you have the moral IQ of a rodent.

[Jeffonthenet]

I am not throwing God into evolution. We can both affirm that evolution happened in the exact same manner. You seem to think from the data of evolution I infer God, and then conclude that this inference is unjustified. However, I infer God on other grounds, and from the properties of God and the data of science would conclude that God planned evolution to happen. I don't feel the need to say that God tinkered with evolution. I would say that he set up the dominoes so that the random mutations he wanted happened. This would be before evolution ever occurred, perhaps even at the big bang.

When you state that, “I infer God on other grounds, and from the properties of God and the data of science would conclude that God planned evolution to happen” you are in fact, “throwing God into evolution.” The “properties” of God that you mentioned are vague enough to let you impose God onto evolution, the big bang, and any other natural process you please. However, you can’t actually explain God’s involvement in any of these phenomena. You can’t rationally explain how, “God planned evolution to happen.” This is merely an unsubstantiated claim and we just have to take your word for it that God was involved.

The reason I believe God planned evolution is because I believe he exists and he created mankind. I believe these things on the grounds of the personal experience of God. I am not arguing for these things though. It feels like you are expecting me to present evidence for God, and then concluding my belief in Him is rationally unjustified because I cannot present this evidence. If this is the case, I reiterate that I am not trying to prove to you God exists. I am, however, defending against the case that I am being irrational. About the vague definition, as I said earlier, it is also possible that God was defined too narrowly because of the arrogance of mankind, and not because of God. It is also true that around 1000 AD we see Thomas Aquinas define God in a similar way, and I would also think that this is how philosophers defined Him. However, many of these definitions are consistent with the Christian God even though they do not enumerate all of His properties.

Jer, it doesn't seem like we are getting anywhere, and I don't feel that you are really understanding my logic. Given the amount of time it takes to give a response to a post of this length, I need to really think if there is value in responding further.

[Taqiyya Mockingbird]

The reason I believe God planned evolution is because I believe he exists and he created mankind. I believe these things on the grounds of the personal experience of God.

OKAY -- HERE IS WHERE YOU DESCRIBE IN DETAIL THIS "PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF GOD" THAT YOU ARE CLAIMING. YOU ARE ALSO GOING TO CLEARLY DEFINE THIS GOD-ENTITY IN DETAIL: WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, HOW BIG IT IS, WHAT SEX IF ANY, HOW, WHEN, AND WHERE IT SUPPOSEDLY PRESENTED ITSELF TO YOU, AND WHY YOU DIDN'T MENTION TO IT THAT IT REALLY OUGHT TO GO ON CNN AND DEMONSTRATE ITS EXISTENCE TO EVERYONE ON THE PLANET INSTEAD OF SOME RANDOM TWAT ON THE INTERNET.

NO MORE HIDING BEHIND VAGUENESS, EQUIVOCATION, OBFUSCATION AND AMBIGUITY. AND NO TRYING TO WEASEL YOUR WAY OUT OF IT. YOU HAVE NOW LAID YOUR CLAIM OF YOUR "PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH GOD" ON THE TABLE. PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

---

Jeffonthenet said:

I don't feel the need to say that God tinkered with evolution. I would say that he set up the dominoes so that the random mutations he wanted happened. This would be before evolution ever occurred, perhaps even at the big bang

Please explain how the random mutations that are pictured on the following page (WARNING: EXTREMELY DISTURBING GRAPHIC IMAGES) are what your mythical god-figure wanted when it supposedly "set up the dominoes so that the random mutations he wanted happened".

www .documentingreality.com/forum/f149/human-deformity-collection-14048

[Opsnyder]

Give me a good reason to believe in God and I might think about it. Haven't HEARD ANY SINGLE ONE YET!

[fr0d0]

Ace you're dribbling! *calls Ace's nurse*

What would you expect?! I've been through Summer's naughty pics again this morning. Got an erection that fast I got a whiplash.

How are ya Frodo?

Lol

TOO much information buddy!