Fuck This "Xtian Nation" Shit!

[Darkstar]

Well America (or more plainly the framework for what would become America arising during early Colonial America) was founded on Protestant morality and ethics. That has carried through the centuries.

You mean like homophobia? Maybe the ethics that America and Protestantism agree on are the universal ones. The point that is trying to be made is that the constitution clearly seperates church and state, and religions are trying to use political force in areas such as gay marriage and the teaching of evolution in school.

[Polaris]

Well America (or more plainly the framework for what would become America arising during early Colonial America) was founded on Protestant morality and ethics. That has carried through the centuries.

You mean like homophobia? Maybe the ethics that America and Protestantism agree on are the universal ones. The point that is trying to be made is that the constitution clearly seperates church and state, and religions are trying to use political force in areas such as gay marriage and the teaching of evolution in school.

Ever hear of the Protestant work ethic?

Really. Where do you get that the Constitution clearly explains the Separation of Church and State? That only came into play starting in 1948.

[Darkstar]

Ever hear of the Protestant work ethic?

Actually, I hadn't. I don't know very much about Protestantism. Just wondering; does this imply that all other christian sects are lazy?

Really. Where do you get that the Constitution clearly explains the Separation of Church and State? That only came into play starting in 1948.

"Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state") is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson (in his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists) and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly cited by the Supreme Court of the United States.

[Faith No More]

Well America (or more plainly the framework for what would become America arising during early Colonial America) was founded on Protestant morality and ethics. That has carried through the centuries.

I had no idea that Protestand morality and ethics involved completely ignoring the sixth commandment.

[Polaris]

Ever hear of the Protestant work ethic?

Actually, I hadn't. I don't know very much about Protestantism. Just wondering; does this imply that all other christian sects are lazy?

Really. Where do you get that the Constitution clearly explains the Separation of Church and State? That only came into play starting in 1948.

"Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state") is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson (in his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists) and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly cited by the Supreme Court of the United States.

It's not found by studying Protestantism, but from studying American Colonial history.

It was first used in 1868 by the Supreme Court in a pro-religious connotation. It was not until 1948 that it took on its current meaning.

Jefferson had no part in the drafting of the Constitution because he was not in America at the time if I recall. Furthermore, the 1st Amendment was pushed for by religious groups that just did not want to have a state-dominated religion that would prevent them worshiping as they see fit. It was not about Separation of Church and State, but about the freedom for them to worship as they sought fit.

Well America (or more plainly the framework for what would become America arising during early Colonial America) was founded on Protestant morality and ethics. That has carried through the centuries.

I had no idea that Protestand morality and ethics involved completely ignoring the sixth commandment.

Isn't the Sixth Commandment thou shall not murder?

[Faith No More]

Yes, it is, and to create this country the founders had to systematically murder the indigenous people.

[thesummerqueen]

Protestant Work Ethic is as trademarked as Jew Intelligence - which is to say it only exists for those willing to cultivate it...and if my ex is anything to go by, "willing" and "doing" are two vastly different things.

[Minimalist]

Jefferson had no part in the drafting of the Constitution because he was not in America at the time if I recall. Furthermore, the 1st Amendment was pushed for by religious groups that just did not want to have a state-dominated religion that would prevent them worshiping as they see fit. It was not about Separation of Church and State, but about the freedom for them to worship as they sought fit.

Um, well...you;re right about Jefferson being on assignment abroad when the constitution was written. Unfortunately for you, James Madison, the man who was instrumental in writing the constitution had this to say.

Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history [ttempts where religious bodies had already tried to encroach on the government]. [James Madison, Detached Memoranda, 1820]

So, he knew exactly what he meant.


(Keep your fucking superstitions out of our laws!!!!)

[Polaris]

Jefferson had no part in the drafting of the Constitution because he was not in America at the time if I recall. Furthermore, the 1st Amendment was pushed for by religious groups that just did not want to have a state-dominated religion that would prevent them worshiping as they see fit. It was not about Separation of Church and State, but about the freedom for them to worship as they sought fit.

Um, well...you;re right about Jefferson being on assignment abroad when the constitution was written. Unfortunately for you, James Madison, the man who was instrumental in writing the constitution had this to say.

Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history [ttempts where religious bodies had already tried to encroach on the government]. [James Madison, Detached Memoranda, 1820]

So, he knew exactly what he meant.


(Keep your fucking superstitions out of our laws!!!!)

James Madison attempted to put more into it, but got denied by his fellows. One man does not a country make. The only reason for the first ten were because there was great disagreement with the Constitution in the first place.

The 1st Amendment came from the Virgina Declaration of Rights, notably "all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion." Religion to them was probably referred to as just the Christian religion, but still implies nevertheless all religions...I know many who attack Christianity are also attacking all other religions but don't because it would make them look like white supremacists.

Well you do know that Separation of Church and State was first coined by a theologian right? Playing pick or choose are we?

[Minimalist]

A churchman was the first to sacrifice a virgin to his fucking god too. So what?

When your preacher pals say it they mean that government should let them do whatever the fuck they want to under the guise of paying homage to their invisible sky-daddy.....who always seem to be in need of cash.

I'll take Madison's version: Keep your superstitions to yourself.