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RE: Big Bang Theory
November 8, 2012 at 10:54 pm
(November 8, 2012 at 9:54 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: (November 8, 2012 at 9:44 pm)jonb Wrote: Where is the absolute physical beginning? That is not the big bang
Yes, it most certainly is the Big Bang model. Borde, Guth and Vilinken's Theorem (BGV - 2003) has nailed the coffin shut on the matter with Mathematical proof.
The singularity is not some object that exploded in space. There was no space. The singularity is a boundary point demarcation whereby all physical matter, space and time do not exist causally (not temporally) prior to planck time. Another (non-physical) dimension is most certainly in evidence. We can infer certain necessary non-physical attributes safely. Sure, it's not proof of a loving, caring God, but it's definitely evidence of something with the necessary attributes of God.
If there is a state before it is not an 'Absolute' beginning is it!
When you say 'necessary attributes of god', are you referring to the Swiss cheese theory?
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RE: Big Bang Theory
November 8, 2012 at 11:25 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2012 at 11:27 pm by Truth Matters.)
If there is a state before it is not an 'Absolute' beginning is it!
When you say 'necessary attributes of god', are you referring to the Swiss cheese theory?
[/quote]
You missed the qualifier. Absolute PHYSICAL beginning. There can be no absolute beginning. Nothing cannot cause something to exist.
The PHYSICAL Universe BEGAN to exist. It needs a non-physical causal agency.
Got it?
(November 8, 2012 at 10:50 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Do you want to try stamping your foot as well, TM? You know, just to show what an internet tough guy you really are? It might stop people laughing at the funny clown.
I can see you hit the wall. Honesty is a problem for you.
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RE: Big Bang Theory
November 8, 2012 at 11:29 pm
Yeah, I can totally see how you got that conclusion by my laughing at the silly clown. Why exactly are you here?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Big Bang Theory
November 8, 2012 at 11:30 pm
When you say 'necessary attributes of god', are you referring to the Swiss cheese theory?
[/quote]
No, I'm just speaking primarily of the necessary attributes of Timeless, spaceless, Immateriality and capacity. I could add Personal (intention), but that's a little more abstract and beyond the scope.
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RE: Big Bang Theory
November 8, 2012 at 11:34 pm
(November 8, 2012 at 11:25 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Nothing cannot cause something to exist.
Then it's a good job that cosmologists, astrophysicists and scientists from related disciplines aren't saying that, isn't it?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Big Bang Theory
November 8, 2012 at 11:36 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2012 at 11:40 pm by Truth Matters.)
(November 8, 2012 at 11:29 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Yeah, I can totally see how you got that conclusion by my laughing at the silly clown. Why exactly are you here?
I'm here to spread sunshine and happiness among my Atheist friends - and teach a few things along the way.
You know, these exercises are like doing science. I present a hypothesis and invite all the Atheist critics to falsify. When none of you can falsify (defeat) it , the hypothesis becomes Theory.
(November 8, 2012 at 11:34 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (November 8, 2012 at 11:25 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Nothing cannot cause something to exist.
Then it's a good job that cosmologists, astrophysicists and scientists from related disciplines aren't saying that, isn't it?
Then give me an example where a scientist has demonstrated Something caused by Nothing.
Any scientist who would claim this is irrational. You should question their claim, not rational law Ex nihil nihilo fit. This is perhaps the most successful ontology in science.
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RE: Big Bang Theory
November 8, 2012 at 11:41 pm
Why should I give an example of something I just said no scientist in the appropriate field is claiming?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Big Bang Theory
November 8, 2012 at 11:50 pm
(November 8, 2012 at 11:41 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Why should I give an example of something I just said no scientist in the appropriate field is claiming?
Well then, what exactly was your point?
What's your plausible sufficient causal agency - consistent with Atheism
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RE: Big Bang Theory
November 8, 2012 at 11:57 pm
Atheism has nothing to say about the origin of the Universe! You yourself said that atheism is not science - and I agreed. Twice. Do keep up.
My point, since you ask, is that no scientist working in the relevant fields pertaining to the Big Bang and origin of the Universe is claiming what you are asserting they're claiming; namely, that something can come from nothing. That's a creationist position, not a scientific one. I'm starting to suspect that the reason you want to pass it off as something scientists are claiming, solely in order to ridicule the science, is down to your recognising just how ridiculous the claim actually is and a desire to distance yourself from it. Understandable, but disingenuous at best.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Big Bang Theory
November 9, 2012 at 12:14 am
I heard an apt description of the atheist's beliefs on the universe: Usually based on latest scientific findings.
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