Will Jesus return on a white horse?

[Zen Badger]

It's 2,000 years later...."jesus" is more likely to return in a pink cadillac...with horns.... in Texas.

GASP!!!!

You mean jesus christ is really

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It would explain an awful lot when you think about it

[Undeceived]

If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." 18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' "

But the Christians argue that the Ten Commandments were done away with when Jesus was crucified -- and after his death you only had to "believe" to be saved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And they like to focus on Paul -- who changed what Jesus had taught, and started Christianity.

They were not "done away with." Jesus in Mat. 5:17: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." According to scripture, Jesus doesn't change the laws, he sums them up with one word: love.
Mat. 22:37-40: "'Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.'” Commandments 1-4 have to do with loving God, commandments 5-10 have to do with loving your neighbor.

So to get around what Jesus had taught they "translate" what he said to make it mean what they want. They will take the cases where Jesus taught the Ten Commandments and argue that he didn't really mean that they had to keep them -- they argue that they just have to "try" to keep them.

Where does it say that salvation is obtained through "trying"? Salvation is obtained through faith in God's death on behalf of our sins, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). We can't keep every commandment every second of our life--that is the fact of the matter, not some Christian's excuse. We are doomed... unless someone righteous makes us righteous. As Romans 3 explains, "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

And they argue that Paul -- who came after Jesus's death -- taught that they would be saved by "faith" and not by "deed".

Where does Jesus teach salvation by deed?
In Mark 5:34 he says "Your faith has healed you."
Luke 7:50: "Your faith has saved you."
Matthew 9:29 "According to your faith let it be done to you."
Luke 5:20 "When Jesus saw their faith, he said, 'Friend, your sins are forgiven.'"
John 14:1: "Believe in God, believe also in me."
John 14:6: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John 11:25: "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies"
John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
More:
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?sea...spanend=50
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?sea...spanend=50
Please show me the verses where Jesus preaches salvation through works. Are there any instances where Jesus acts kindly toward someone because they did something for him?

[Minimalist]

They were not "done away with."

That's not what some of your brethren profess.

http://www.gunnyding.com/leviticus.htm

It was the law of the Jews at the time of the Old Testament. We (who are saved by grace from Jesus Christ) are not bound under the law. Romans 6:14 "for you are not under the law, but under grace." It does not mean that we are lawless it simply means that the Law is complete
and fulfilled in Jesus Christ. (Note: almost all of Leviticus is ignored by present day Christians who correctly understand they are saved by grace. Strangely, they make an exception for the passages used in their attempt to condemn homosexuality).

Apparently you guys can't make up your minds....except on the whole "queer" thing.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Where does Jesus teach salvation by deed?

Well, isn't having 'faith' a deed? The act of belief is doing something, isn't it?:

In Mark 5:34 he says "Your faith has healed you."
Luke 7:50: "Your faith has saved you."
Matthew 9:29 "According to your faith let it be done to you."
Luke 5:20 "When Jesus saw their faith, he said, 'Friend, your sins are forgiven.'"
John 14:1: "Believe in God, believe also in me."
John 14:6: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John 11:25: "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies"
John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
More:
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?sea...spanend=50
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?sea...spanend=50
Please show me the verses where Jesus preaches salvation through works. Are there any instances where Jesus acts kindly toward someone because they did something for him?

I'd say you've provided some pretty good examples yourself

[Annik]

GASP!!!!

You mean jesus christ is really

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It would explain an awful lot when you think about it

Especially when you consider he's a creationist and a bigot.

[Cyberman]

Damn - I swear I knew who was going to be under that button before I ever clicked it! I'm scaring myself now...

[RichardP]

If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." 18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' "

But the Christians argue that the Ten Commandments were done away with when Jesus was crucified -- and after his death you only had to "believe" to be saved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And they like to focus on Paul -- who changed what Jesus had taught, and started Christianity.

They were not "done away with." Jesus in Mat. 5:17: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." According to scripture, Jesus doesn't change the laws, he sums them up with one word: love.
Mat. 22:37-40: "'Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.'” Commandments 1-4 have to do with loving God, commandments 5-10 have to do with loving your neighbor.

Ok so that is the basis, so what?

Just about everything Jesus taught had to do with the Ten Commandments and obeying them. For example he taught that divorce and remarriage was "adultery".

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

Let's look at the 7th Commandment "Thou shalt not commit adultery". Ok so if you get divorced and remarried you are breaking the 7th Commandment.

I suppose you could say "Oh fuck.. Jesus will you forgive me for divorcing that bitch? I had it with her.. and it just wasn't a healthy relationship. So I divorced her and found a new wife. Jesus will you please forgive me because I don't fucking want to go to hell! I know that every day that I live with my new wife I'm committing adultery but shit I am so happy to be free of that stupid fucking bitch that I married the first time."

So are you arguing that Jesus would forgive that "sin" and therefore he would be eligible to go to heaven? He is not sincerely repentant.. If he had it to do over again he would still divorce her. Why should God forgive him?

Maybe you could argue that not all marriages are going to work and we have to be realistic about it and Jesus will forgive. But that sure as hell wasn't what he told the Pharisees. He didn't tell them that you could get divorced as long as you asked for forgiveness and then the sin of adultery would be forgiven -- and then you would be eligible for eternal life!!!

But if you don't agree with Jesus then you don't have "faith" in what he taught. Maybe you don't even have "faith" that he was God????

How many people even know what the hell they're talking about when they say they will be "saved by faith"? I'll bet you that most of them don't know all Ten Commandments. I know.. ten is a big fucking number!!!

The truth is that the Christians never teach the Ten Commandments. They don't teach that salvation is dependent upon keeping the Ten Commandments. Even if you argue that "Loving God" and "Loving thy neighbor" are the essence of the Ten Commandments -- and you are just keeping those Commandments when you obey the Ten Commandments --that doesn't change the fact that salvation is dependent upon keeping the Ten Commandments.

So to get around what Jesus had taught they "translate" what he said to make it mean what they want. They will take the cases where Jesus taught the Ten Commandments and argue that he didn't really mean that they had to keep them -- they argue that they just have to "try" to keep them.

Where does it say that salvation is obtained through "trying"? Salvation is obtained through faith in God's death on behalf of our sins, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). We can't keep every commandment every second of our life--that is the fact of the matter, not some Christian's excuse. We are doomed... unless someone righteous makes us righteous. As Romans 3 explains, "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

Pauls Letter to the Romans 3:23......

Paul was full of shit. The Christians always fall back on Paul's teachings when asked about something controversial that Jesus taught. Modern day "Christians" are followers of Paul. I don't know if either of them were actually real people but they sure as hell taught different things.

And they argue that Paul -- who came after Jesus's death -- taught that they would be saved by "faith" and not by "deed".

Where does Jesus teach salvation by deed?
In Mark 5:34 he says "Your faith has healed you."
Luke 7:50: "Your faith has saved you."
Matthew 9:29 "According to your faith let it be done to you."
Luke 5:20 "When Jesus saw their faith, he said, 'Friend, your sins are forgiven.'"
John 14:1: "Believe in God, believe also in me."
John 14:6: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John 11:25: "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies"
John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
More:
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?sea...spanend=50
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?sea...spanend=50
Please show me the verses where Jesus preaches salvation through works. Are there any instances where Jesus acts kindly toward someone because they did something for him?

Jesus taught salvation by obeying the Ten Commandments. And when asked about salvation he always answered that they needed to follow the Ten Commandments.

And like you said the Ten Commandments can be broken down into "Loving God" and "Loving thy neighbor".

Jesus told the story about the "good" Samaritan to illustrate how you love your neighbor. The Samaritan was NOT a Jew! The Samaritan religion preaches worship of idols and burnt offerings to their gods. Jesus was using the Samaritans DEED as an example of his love for his neighbor. It sure wasn't his "faith" in the Jews God that made him help the man.

I think that the notion of "faith" is an extremely vague one. Maybe it is just me but I don't know what the hell "faith" means. Do you have a definition? And NOT one of Paul's!

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Maybe we need to update the story.

Old Version:

16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" 17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." 18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' " 20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" 21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." 22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" 21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." 22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

New Version!

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want eternal life, obey the commandments."

"Which ones?" the man inquired.

Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' "

"I've kept some of those" the young man shrugged.

"Which ones?" Jesus frowned.

"Fuck I don't know... I haven't killed anyone."

"But you committed adultery?"

"Yeah my first wife was a fucking bitch. I divorced her ass and married a fucking little hottie!"

"And you steal?"

"Only when I really need to. Besides the people I steal from have a shitload of money!"

"And you give false testimony? You lie about people?"

"Fuck you Jesus! Everybody does and they lie a hell of a lot more than I do!"

"Do you honor your mother and father?"

The young man shook his head in disgust, "They were always fucking getting on my case about something. I just don't have anything to do with them anymore."

"And you don't love your neighbor?" Jesus asked.

The young man rolled his eyes, "Half the people around her are fucking atheists! You want me to love them? Are you fucking joking? A couple days ago a couple of my buds and me caught a fucking atheist faggot trying to pick up on this Christian chick, and we kicked his fucking ass. It was fucking hilarious!"

Jesus shook his head. "You are not even trying to keep the Commandments. Your faith is weak."

The young man rapped Jesus over the head with his knuckles "Knock knock, is anybody in there? If I had weak faith would I be fucking asking you about salvation? I believe in God, I go to church every Sunday. I fucking pray to God every fucking day! I am always fucking asking God for direction, and you know what? He fucking answers my prayers! I live a pretty fucking successful life. I drive a fucking pimped out car, and I have some pretty fucking cool stuff!"

The young man started to walk away then he stopped and turned back to Jesus. "I think that you're the one who has weak faith! I might sin but I ask God for forgiveness. You know what fucker? It is our faith that saves us and not our deeds -- because all men fall short!"

[Undeceived]

Just about everything Jesus taught had to do with the Ten Commandments and obeying them.

"Everything"? Jesus is affirming that the law still exists, that adultery is still a sin. He just finished telling the pharisees their actions did not matter and that "God knows your hearts" (Luke 16:15). Jesus' audience clearly understands his shift in focus from other Jewish rabbis, which is why he must go back and explain the law.

So are you arguing that Jesus would forgive that "sin" and therefore he would be eligible to go to heaven? He is not sincerely repentant.. If he had it to do over again he would still divorce her. Why should God forgive him?

Yes, why should He? Isn't it amazing how much God loves us! We need not repent of each sin individually (impossible). We need merely to believe He died for our sins and reform our hearts daily in grateful response.

Maybe you could argue that not all marriages are going to work and we have to be realistic about it and Jesus will forgive. But that sure as hell wasn't what he told the Pharisees. He didn't tell them that you could get divorced as long as you asked for forgiveness and then the sin of adultery would be forgiven -- and then you would be eligible for eternal life!!!

Jesus wants people who follow him to change, not to use forgiveness as a licence to sin. It sounds like this is an important topic to you. Have you experienced a difficult marriage? God can mend all wounds. And I believe that if both marriage partners love with an Godly agape (self-sacrificial) love, there will never be a divorce.

The truth is that the Christians never teach the Ten Commandments. They don't teach that salvation is dependent upon keeping the Ten Commandments.

Here's the thing. Salvation can be obtained by keeping God's law, meaning being one-hundred-percent righteous and sinless. But it is self-evident that no one has ever been fully righteous or even close. One selfish thought or white lie and the law is broken. That's why Jesus frequently says things like "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." You posted Matthew 19:17b-19. Well in Matthew 19:17a, Jesus replies, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only One who is good." He is questioning why the man is asking about being good by the law when there is "only One" who can be--God. He then proceeds to test the man's faith. Instead of telling him to refrain from doing evil (which is what the Ten Commandments calls for) he asks the man to selflessly sell everything and trust in God to provide. The man's true heart shows through as he leaves without doing what his Lord asked. Jesus sums up the narrative in verse 26 saying, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." According to him God is the one working, not us.

Jesus taught salvation by obeying the Ten Commandments. And when asked about salvation he always answered that they needed to follow the Ten Commandments.

In the collection of verses I posted, Jesus continually connects faith or belief in himself to life and forgiveness. Please explain why you see it differently, or tell me just where in the Bible you're referring to.

It sure wasn't his "faith" in the Jews God that made him help the man.

Jesus was again emphasizing that if someone were as loving as the Samaritan all the time, they would have to be righteous and worthy of heaven. Coincidentally, the only way to be so selfless is to possess the boundless love of God within. No one can be fully righteous unless they are so close to God as to practically be God, because all love comes from God. You can try to do all the necessary things to reach heaven, but it is impossible to know what all those necessary things are without actually seeing through loving eyes. The Jews passed the man on the road because they did not perceive helping him as part of the law. The line between good and evil is so fuzzy to humanity that we cannot completely know it without being connected to the moral Lawgiver—the One who created good and knows it from evil.

I think that the notion of "faith" is an extremely vague one. Maybe it is just me but I don't know what the hell "faith" means. Do you have a definition?

http://www.acts17-11.com/faith.html
A Christian’s faith, more specifically, is in who Jesus is (God) and what he has done (died for forgiveness of sins), is doing and will do in the future. It is similar to the faith a child has that his/her parent will come home and feed them--a trust based on one's knowledge/experience of that person.

[ronedee]

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It is written: "When Jesus returns, many of the unbelievers (YOU) will die of fright!"

So think scary ride!

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[RichardP]

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It is written: "When Jesus returns, many of the unbelievers (YOU) will die of fright!"

So think scary ride!

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He will come riding on a white horse leading the Christians in a war -- killing, and mutilating the non-believers!