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RE: Views on Islam
January 3, 2013 at 10:39 am
Quote:"Praise be to Allah, the Lord, Master, Sustainer, Provider, Supporter, Nourisher and Guardian, Sovereign, Ruler, He Who controls and directs of the entire universe."
In english i think it would look something like "praise be to God"
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RE: Views on Islam
January 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm
(January 3, 2013 at 10:39 am)paulpablo Wrote: Quote:"Praise be to Allah, the Lord, Master, Sustainer, Provider, Supporter, Nourisher and Guardian, Sovereign, Ruler, He Who controls and directs of the entire universe."
In english i think it would look something like "praise be to God"
By doing that you have missed a lot of meaing of the verse. The verse isnt just praise be to god. Its it is praise him. And a list of his qualities without the qualities you dont know why to praise him.
Sahih International
[All] praise is [due] to Allah , Lord of the worlds -
Muhsin Khan
All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
Pickthall
Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
Yusuf Ali
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Shakir
All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
Dr. Ghali
Praise be to Allah, The Lord of the worlds.
By doing just praise to allah you would lose a whole section of the arabic text. The bit after the comma.
http://c00022506.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspa...om/1_2.png
That the arabic. Praise be to god is Alhamdulillah. Which is the first bit of the line. But the whole line 'Al-Hamdu lillahi Rabbil-'Aalamin. So by just saying praise be to god you miss out the Rabbil-'Aalamin. Aalamin being creation, e.g. jinn angels humans universe etc and rab being the big huge list i mentioned before.
So it is complicated.
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RE: Views on Islam
January 3, 2013 at 12:57 pm
Sometimes, a translation can be an adaptation.
You may lose the poetic content, but you will keep the whole meaning of the thing. This is possible, even if you must add a lot of words. Heck, it's a book, not subtitles! Who cares if the translated version has more pages than the original? If the original has words that can't be directly translated into the other language, you will have to use more words just to keep the meaning of the sentence intact.
Sometime ago, I read a National Geographic article on vanishing languages... there's a language that has some 100 different words to describe individual states of the animal they use as cattle: they have one word which describes the age, gender, health status and some other details about the animal. If we want to translate such a word, we need to fill out one or two lines of text... so be it!
Surely, I can't be the first person to think of such a translation of the koran, or q'uran, or quhran or whatever is the name of that arabic book.
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RE: Views on Islam
January 3, 2013 at 1:00 pm
lord of worlds would generally be described as god in english, lord is actually a synonym of god in the english dictionary.
It doesnt really matter, my original point still stands, why create one holy book in one language 1500 years ago and leave it to the word of man to prove its true.
The fact put forth by muslims that it is so unique and so untranslatable is even more proof of the unlikelyhood that god would send down a document which can only be understood by a minority of people on the earth.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
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RE: Views on Islam
January 3, 2013 at 1:02 pm
(This post was last modified: January 3, 2013 at 1:10 pm by ThatMuslimGuy.)
(January 3, 2013 at 12:57 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Sometimes, a translation can be an adaptation.
You may lose the poetic content, but you will keep the whole meaning of the thing. This is possible, even if you must add a lot of words. Heck, it's a book, not subtitles! Who cares if the translated version has more pages than the original? If the original has words that can't be directly translated into the other language, you will have to use more words just to keep the meaning of the sentence intact.
Sometime ago, I read a National Geographic article on vanishing languages... there's a language that has some 100 different words to describe individual states of the animal they use as cattle: they have one word which describes the age, gender, health status and some other details about the animal. If we want to translate such a word, we need to fill out one or two lines of text... so be it!
Surely, I can't be the first person to think of such a translation of the koran, or q'uran, or quhran or whatever is the name of that arabic book.
lol. Good point. You raised the point i was trying to say. i'm not bothered if it bigger or more words. Just obv translators try and keep it precise. By that they may get the message but may loose some meaning. So always best to read the arabic.
(January 3, 2013 at 1:00 pm)paulpablo Wrote: lord of worlds would generally be described as god in english, lord is actually a synonym of god in the english dictionary.
It doesnt really matter, my original point still stands, why create one holy book in one language 1500 years ago and leave it to the word of man to prove its true.
The fact put forth by muslims that it is so unique and so untranslatable is even more proof of the unlikelyhood that god would send down a document which can only be understood by a minority of people on the earth.
Ok sweet viewpoint. But that problem would lie if god sent any message in any language that some people would have a problem understanding. So with this problem a fact. Why not pick the best language to reveal the revelation in. Arabic.
And everyone can understand it through translations of the meanings of the Qur'an just not its entirety.
"lord of worlds would generally be described as god in english, lord is actually a synonym of god in the english dictionary."
yeah it can be described but that isnt what the text said. If i said what does Rabbil-'Aalamin mean. The reply wouldnt be god. It would be an explanation of the word rabb. And an explanation of the word aalamin. But hey i dont know arabic so i'm not talk about arabic anymore.
By your translation Al-Hamdu lillahi Rabbil-'Aalamin means.
"Praise be to god, God."
Anyway guys keep telling me your viewpoints. Probs wont reply for a day or two gonna be Busy.
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RE: Views on Islam
January 3, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Logical conclusion: God speaks arabic!
Not aramaic, not greek, not latin, not english. Arabic. And he can't convey his message properly in any other language...
Wait a minute, wasn't that language made by man?.... oh boy...
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RE: Views on Islam
January 3, 2013 at 1:13 pm
you do realise that with computer systems, games consoles, ipads and kindles there are very good instructions in several languages WITHOUT the use of idioms or poetic language to confuse people. Its almost as if the islamic god is inferior in his ways of sending messages than sony, apple or nintendo.
So i dont really agree with god just picking one language he aproved of the most.
Also if you are going to write a book to humanity id also suggest dont do it at a time when most people cant even read any language.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
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RE: Views on Islam
January 3, 2013 at 1:18 pm
Quote:Firstly let me explain Surat An-Nisā' (The Women) 4:34
Why is your 'god' so inept that he needs you to make his words clear?
Doesn't seem like much of a god to me.
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RE: Views on Islam
January 3, 2013 at 1:21 pm
Remember speech class when you were in school? The teachers say "write for your audience." Communication is the exchange of data and only an imperfect god would try to communicate imperfectly.
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RE: Views on Islam
January 3, 2013 at 1:22 pm
(January 3, 2013 at 1:18 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:Firstly let me explain Surat An-Nisā' (The Women) 4:34
Why is your 'god' so inept that he needs you to make his words clear?
Doesn't seem like much of a god to me.
I think the words are clear themselves. Im just making sure were on the same page.
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