the wife beating verse

[paulpablo]

Im sure this has probably done before on this forum but i didnt see a new thread about it so im making my own.

Sahih International
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
Muhsin Khan
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.
Pickthall
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Yusuf Ali
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
Shakir
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
Dr. Ghali
Men are the ever upright (managers) (of the affairs) of women for what Allah has graced some of them over (some) others and for what they have expended of their riches. So righteous women are devout, preservers of the Unseen for. And the ones whom you fear their non-compliance, then admonish them and forsake them in their beds, (Literally: a madajic= reeclining) and strike them, (i.e. hit them lightly) yet in case they obey you, then do not seek inequitably any way against them; surely Allah has been Ever-Exalted, Ever-Great.

Here are six different independant translations of the wife beating verse in the quran.

Here are some excuses for this. In my opinion all pretty crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1DpNIJL-Fk

First excuse which ive encountered SOOOOO many times with muslims. The word "beat" is misunderstood, ive encountered this before with the word "day" "backbone" "ribs" and others in the quran, first arabic translators were sure these words were correctly translated but when they are used in contexts within the quran that are scientifically or morally wrong all of a sudden no one is sure what they mean.
Basically even though the word "beat" has been translated in the context of beating the wife time and time again by many muslims who know arabic we dont know what this word means.
In this video the man says it COULD be in the context of the husband hitting the wife with an idea. If my blood wasnt boiling with rage about how much of an obvious ridiculous con this is id probably laugh at that idea.
He then says the man couldnt possibly hit his wife because in the next verse it talks about the family getting together and talking about the problems between the man and wife. This means nothing, you might aswell deny domestic abuse ever happens because every daughter has a father so how could the father let this happen. In court if domestic abuse is implied in a situation it would be ridiculous if a witness was called in who said "no the woman couldnt have been beaten by her husband i saw them at a family get together after the alledged beating was supposed to have taken place so therefore it didnt happen".

Contrarywise to this opinion, a different excuse has been made by a muslim who seems to understand the quran DOES mean beat in the context of beating your wife. Oh but this time it means beat with a toothbrush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC44SDOrIhY

The exact part is around 3 minutes 30 seconds into the video.

Im basically posting this thread to show the ridiculous and contradictory arguments posed by some muslims when trying to desperately come up with excuses and wanted some opinions on this.

[Minimalist]

A more honest statement would be

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other men writing the fucking thing.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

Im sure this has probably done before on this forum but i didnt see a new thread about it so im making my own.

Sahih International
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
Muhsin Khan
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.
Pickthall
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Yusuf Ali
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
Shakir
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
Dr. Ghali
Men are the ever upright (managers) (of the affairs) of women for what Allah has graced some of them over (some) others and for what they have expended of their riches. So righteous women are devout, preservers of the Unseen for. And the ones whom you fear their non-compliance, then admonish them and forsake them in their beds, (Literally: a madajic= reeclining) and strike them, (i.e. hit them lightly) yet in case they obey you, then do not seek inequitably any way against them; surely Allah has been Ever-Exalted, Ever-Great.

Here are six different independant translations of the wife beating verse in the quran.

Here are some excuses for this. In my opinion all pretty crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1DpNIJL-Fk

First excuse which ive encountered SOOOOO many times with muslims. The word "beat" is misunderstood, ive encountered this before with the word "day" "backbone" "ribs" and others in the quran, first arabic translators were sure these words were correctly translated but when they are used in contexts within the quran that are scientifically or morally wrong all of a sudden no one is sure what they mean.
Basically even though the word "beat" has been translated in the context of beating the wife time and time again by many muslims who know arabic we dont know what this word means.
In this video the man says it COULD be in the context of the husband hitting the wife with an idea. If my blood wasnt boiling with rage about how much of an obvious ridiculous con this is id probably laugh at that idea.
He then says the man couldnt possibly hit his wife because in the next verse it talks about the family getting together and talking about the problems between the man and wife. This means nothing, you might aswell deny domestic abuse ever happens because every daughter has a father so how could the father let this happen. In court if domestic abuse is implied in a situation it would be ridiculous if a witness was called in who said "no the woman couldnt have been beaten by her husband i saw them at a family get together after the alledged beating was supposed to have taken place so therefore it didnt happen".

Contrarywise to this opinion, a different excuse has been made by a muslim who seems to understand the quran DOES mean beat in the context of beating your wife. Oh but this time it means beat with a toothbrush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC44SDOrIhY

The exact part is around 3 minutes 30 seconds into the video.

Im basically posting this thread to show the ridiculous and contradictory arguments posed by some muslims when trying to desperately come up with excuses and wanted some opinions on this.

Gonna sleep. Will return giving you the two scholarly viewpoints. Both prohibit wife beating. I should of explained both the scholarly viewpoints i apologize.

[paulpablo]

Just on a side note id like to point out how far removed from an original source the word of god is now.
It comes from god to an illiterate man who needs it to be written down for him, Then the book is compiled from collections of writtings and recitations that were remembered by other men then it needs to be re written over and over as the pages of the book age over the history of time for 1500 years or so, THEN it needs to be translated because not everyone speaks classic arabic Then when the words are translated they seem to indicate the book is scientifically and morally wrong so they need to be explained by ANOTHER man who claims to know more about the language and history of the book,
At this point its pretty far removed as it is but THEN it turns out even thier viewpoints are contradictory so youre going to come back with even more scholarly opinions on the book.

[Minimalist]

Both prohibit wife beating.

Catholics don't officially approve of sodomizing children. Doesn't mean that it doesn't go on.

[paulpablo]

Id also like to add in all fairness that this thread isnt about what does or doesnt go on within Islam, its mainly about the fundamental verses, the main points of which ive raised in my previous posts. It can basically be split into two points.

1 The verses do speak of a husband beating his wife and the excuses arent good enough

2 Even IF these excuses were correct why would god create a book in which even the scholars and experts cant agree on what is said within the book. And why would he rely on these scholars in the first place to spread his message when they blatently arent doing a good job of it since they even disagree with each other. And not everyone in the world has access to communication with a quranic scholar which makes the message even more bias about who can seem to understand it.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

Currently away from pc will reply in a few days.

[Al-Fatihah]

Im sure this has probably done before on this forum but i didnt see a new thread about it so im making my own.

Sahih International
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
Muhsin Khan
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.
Pickthall
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Yusuf Ali
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
Shakir
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
Dr. Ghali
Men are the ever upright (managers) (of the affairs) of women for what Allah has graced some of them over (some) others and for what they have expended of their riches. So righteous women are devout, preservers of the Unseen for. And the ones whom you fear their non-compliance, then admonish them and forsake them in their beds, (Literally: a madajic= reeclining) and strike them, (i.e. hit them lightly) yet in case they obey you, then do not seek inequitably any way against them; surely Allah has been Ever-Exalted, Ever-Great.

Here are six different independant translations of the wife beating verse in the quran.

Here are some excuses for this. In my opinion all pretty crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1DpNIJL-Fk

First excuse which ive encountered SOOOOO many times with muslims. The word "beat" is misunderstood, ive encountered this before with the word "day" "backbone" "ribs" and others in the quran, first arabic translators were sure these words were correctly translated but when they are used in contexts within the quran that are scientifically or morally wrong all of a sudden no one is sure what they mean.
Basically even though the word "beat" has been translated in the context of beating the wife time and time again by many muslims who know arabic we dont know what this word means.
In this video the man says it COULD be in the context of the husband hitting the wife with an idea. If my blood wasnt boiling with rage about how much of an obvious ridiculous con this is id probably laugh at that idea.
He then says the man couldnt possibly hit his wife because in the next verse it talks about the family getting together and talking about the problems between the man and wife. This means nothing, you might aswell deny domestic abuse ever happens because every daughter has a father so how could the father let this happen. In court if domestic abuse is implied in a situation it would be ridiculous if a witness was called in who said "no the woman couldnt have been beaten by her husband i saw them at a family get together after the alledged beating was supposed to have taken place so therefore it didnt happen".

Contrarywise to this opinion, a different excuse has been made by a muslim who seems to understand the quran DOES mean beat in the context of beating your wife. Oh but this time it means beat with a toothbrush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC44SDOrIhY

The exact part is around 3 minutes 30 seconds into the video.

Im basically posting this thread to show the ridiculous and contradictory arguments posed by some muslims when trying to desperately come up with excuses and wanted some opinions on this.

Response: As for hitting the wife, verse 34 does allow hitting the wife as a disciplinary act by the husband if she disobeys the protection provided by the husband (such as allowing his enemies in the home, using the money he provides to financially stabilize the family for her own personal gain, etc.,) yet as verse 19 demonstrates, women are to be treated with kindness. Thus the hit should not be abusive or painful. The sunnah of the prophet states that when asked of what force to beat a women, the prophet displays the bristles of a toothbrush, demonstrating how light the hit must be. The prophet also forbids hitting women in the face or leaving a mark. In short, the hitting is very light, thus it is not unjust, as it leaves no marks or causes pain. With that said, the usual objection by non-Muslims is that it's still wrong because no one likes to be hit. To that I say then, that you should help to free every prisoner from jail. Why? Because they don't like it. Anyone can see the absurdity. It's a punishment. It's not supposed to be liked. Once again, Islam is still established as a just religion.

[paulpablo]

My objection to this isnt that no one likes to be hit, my objection is that you have what the quran says which is you should admonish then banish from your bedroom then beat a wife who you fear rebelion from,

and you have gone from this to the absurd senario of a woman spending the guys cash on whatever she wants, letting men into the house who are enemies of her husband and really acting out of control, then the husband comes home. What does he do?
He gets out the toothbrush and taps her with it. Yeh im sure she will learn from that. Sorry just being sarcastic.
Ive known some rebelious girls and women in my time and if you tapped them with a toothbrush to punish them they would take the brush off you slap you round the head with it and tell you to get out.
Besides youre talking about Sunnah which has no authority over the quran in islam, a man can beat his wife abiding by the quran and not even have to think about what the sunnah says.

[Al-Fatihah]

My objection to this isnt that no one likes to be hit, my objection is that you have what the quran says which is you should admonish then banish from your bedroom then beat a wife who you fear rebelion from,

and you have gone from this to the absurd senario of a woman spending the guys cash on whatever she wants, letting men into the house who are enemies of her husband and really acting out of control, then the husband comes home. What does he do?
He gets out the toothbrush and taps her with it. Yeh im sure she will learn from that. Sorry just being sarcastic.
Ive known some rebelious girls and women in my time and if you tapped them with a toothbrush to punish them they would take the brush off you slap you round the head with it and tell you to get out.
Besides youre talking about Sunnah which has no authority over the quran in islam, a man can beat his wife abiding by the quran and not even have to think about what the sunnah says.

Response: Yet nothing in the entire Qur'an says that a person can beat their wife and not obey the sunnah. So your argument is invalid.