the wife beating verse

[ThatMuslimGuy]

Yeah. Thinks it done.

[paulpablo]

The reason why it was revealed to an illiterate man is to show the miracle of the Qur'an. How could an illiterate man recite a book that no one has been able to match to this day?

If you bare with me and listen to me i think i can explain why this is totally ridiculous.
This statement includes god DOING something, in this case revealing the miracle of the quran to an illiterate man, in order to ACCOMPLISH something else. The thing he was trying to do was show the miracle of the quran.

Now IF this statement were true it means god has tried something and failed. A total and utter failure. We dont even have much evidence that muhammed existed, and even if he existed we dont know for certain he was illiterate, even if he was illiterate we dont know he didnt have help making the quran.

We just simply dont have the evidence that there even was a muhammed apart from rumour and heresay, AND even muslims themselves reject a lot of that rumour and heresay

Now ill make some statements, in the same sort of theme of what you said but in this case based on hypothetical situations of what i think would happen in a world where allah exists.
"God carved the arabic word "quran" onto the moon to prove the miracle of the quran"
"god made a solid platinum version of the quran and placed it in australia, africa and america so that we would all know to follow the quran"
"god sent down his messenger and the proof is that he is still alive now after 1500 years"

Lets not forget that these things are possible to god, it says in the quran allah creates what he likes. Also if the quran is to be believed god already split the moon once in order to make people believe but he only did it at a specific time to certain people.
It reminds me of being in school around the age of 6 and you would get one of your friends claiming they jumped as high as a house then you ask them to do it again and they say something like "nah my legs are tired now, seeya later"
instead of creating proof and being sucessful at spreading the message and proving to humankind on an international basis the miracle of the quran, god fails.
Instead god does an act of brain surgery on a man causing him to hear ringing bells, sweat, then be able to recite a book to a few arabs.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

The reason why it was revealed to an illiterate man is to show the miracle of the Qur'an. How could an illiterate man recite a book that no one has been able to match to this day?

If you bare with me and listen to me i think i can explain why this is totally ridiculous.
This statement includes god DOING something, in this case revealing the miracle of the quran to an illiterate man, in order to ACCOMPLISH something else. The thing he was trying to do was show the miracle of the quran.

Now IF this statement were true it means god has tried something and failed. A total and utter failure. We dont even have much evidence that muhammed existed, and even if he existed we dont know for certain he was illiterate, even if he was illiterate we dont know he didnt have help making the quran.

We just simply dont have the evidence that there even was a muhammed apart from rumour and heresay, AND even muslims themselves reject a lot of that rumour and heresay

Now ill make some statements, in the same sort of theme of what you said but in this case based on hypothetical situations of what i think would happen in a world where allah exists.
"God carved the arabic word "quran" onto the moon to prove the miracle of the quran"
"god made a solid platinum version of the quran and placed it in australia, africa and america so that we would all know to follow the quran"
"god sent down his messenger and the proof is that he is still alive now after 1500 years"

Lets not forget that these things are possible to god, it says in the quran allah creates what he likes. Also if the quran is to be believed god already split the moon once in order to make people believe but he only did it at a specific time to certain people.
It reminds me of being in school around the age of 6 and you would get one of your friends claiming they jumped as high as a house then you ask them to do it again and they say something like "nah my legs are tired now, seeya later"
instead of creating proof and being sucessful at spreading the message and proving to humankind on an international basis the miracle of the quran, god fails.
Instead god does an act of brain surgery on a man causing him to hear ringing bells, sweat, then be able to recite a book to a few arabs.

Will reply later. Sorry man ive got a biology exam gotta revise.

"rumour and heresay"
If you are refering to the Hadith's then i think you should research the science of the Hadith. It isn't just i heard this guy say this about this guy.

[paulpablo]

I made sure to research from only islamic websites since people seem to look down on wikipedia.

Invention of Hadith started early by the Prophet’s companions, and during the period of the ‘Great Sedition’

These are hardly undenyable unrefutable historical documents, they were started by a bunch of people who claimed to be close to muhammed.
The first example they give of somone using hadith on this website is of somone using it dishonestly

The spread of Islam caused the elimination of the cast system, removal of social boundaries between rich and poor, and the elimination of the slave system. They went to “utilize” Abu-Hureira to defend them using Hadith ‘sayings’ that he claimed to have heard coming out of the Prophet Muhamed’s mouth. Abu Hureira was one of those who had met Prophet Muhamed and accompanied him for only 1.5 years, and was known to have spread narrations using the Prophet’s name for social status and gains.

The website goes on to list several splits between muslim sects due to hadith and the seperation of sunni and shia muslims, basically proving what ive said that the hadith are basically made up from 1500 year old hearsay and rumour and picking which one to follow.

The title "science of hadith" is sooo ridiculously misleading, i mean even historians talking about well established historical records of roman emperors are supposed to have said will tell you that it isnt scientific evidence. It isnt provable or falsifiable, its all based on speculation, based on "oh i dont think he would have said that" or "this person isnt relyable dont believe them"
on this islamic website it shows the critera for proving a hadith reliable or not, some of the judgements include "reliabilty and memory of the reporters" and "number of reporters" even if several people said they heard jesus saying "ponsious pilate is a bit of a cock" and wrote it down later you couldnt make a scientific judgement on wether its true or not.
The hadith is by its nature anecdotal evidence.
Maybe you can find hadith that are scientific but from what i see its based on "i heard the prophet say this" oh a lot of people said and they had good memory that so that must be right

[ThatMuslimGuy]

I made sure to research from only islamic websites since people seem to look down on wikipedia.

Invention of Hadith started early by the Prophet’s companions, and during the period of the ‘Great Sedition’

These are hardly undenyable unrefutable historical documents, they were started by a bunch of people who claimed to be close to muhammed.
The first example they give of somone using hadith on this website is of somone using it dishonestly

The spread of Islam caused the elimination of the cast system, removal of social boundaries between rich and poor, and the elimination of the slave system. They went to “utilize” Abu-Hureira to defend them using Hadith ‘sayings’ that he claimed to have heard coming out of the Prophet Muhamed’s mouth. Abu Hureira was one of those who had met Prophet Muhamed and accompanied him for only 1.5 years, and was known to have spread narrations using the Prophet’s name for social status and gains.

The website goes on to list several splits between muslim sects due to hadith and the seperation of sunni and shia muslims, basically proving what ive said that the hadith are basically made up from 1500 year old hearsay and rumour and picking which one to follow.

The title "science of hadith" is sooo ridiculously misleading, i mean even historians talking about well established historical records of roman emperors are supposed to have said will tell you that it isnt scientific evidence. It isnt provable or falsifiable, its all based on speculation, based on "oh i dont think he would have said that" or "this person isnt relyable dont believe them"
on this islamic website it shows the critera for proving a hadith reliable or not, some of the judgements include "reliabilty and memory of the reporters" and "number of reporters" even if several people said they heard jesus saying "ponsious pilate is a bit of a cock" and wrote it down later you couldnt make a scientific judgement on wether its true or not.
The hadith is by its nature anecdotal evidence.
Maybe you can find hadith that are scientific but from what i see its based on "i heard the prophet say this" oh a lot of people said and they had good memory that so that must be right

May i ask for the sources you quote?
who said it was scientific evidence?
After my exam i will go through the science of Hadith. And may i ask how could you verify someone said something? How could you verify your mother was your mother without a DNA test?
btw not dodging question but to busy revising so will answer later.

[Ryantology]

If you bare with me and listen to me i think i can explain why this is totally ridiculous.

I can explain it even more quickly: If take an ignorant, illiterate man, put him in a state of severe distress to the point where he is hallucinating ("The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more"), and believe that hallucination demands he read from a book, he's going to make up whatever crazy shit he thinks is going to make the pain stop. And, since he is illiterate and ignorant, he's probably going to think it all really happened. And, if he is charismatic enough, he can convince other ignorant illiterates to believe him and follow him on a 14 centuries long orgy of violence, conquest and suppression.

Look at that, Occam's Razor just cut a bitch.

[paulpablo]

And may i ask how could you verify someone said something?

This is the question im asking you, what im saying there is no way to verify what anyone has said 1500 years ago.
which is exactly and precisely why if god had such an important message to humanity wouldnt send it to us now via anecdotal evidence. As i said rumours and heresay.

I dont know my mother is my mother unless i get a DNA test done but at this point in my life its inconsiquential, shes has acted as my other for 28 years, she isnt claiming to not be my mother neither is anyone else claiming she isnt my mother nor does it matter to me that much. id still treat her as a mother either way-
If she or anyone else was making a bold claim to the contrary of the person i know as my mother not being my mother then yes a DNA test would be in order because bold claims need to provide bold evidence if they are to be taken seriously.

[The Grand Nudger]

Personally i found a lot of proof for Islam.

Then you should stop hogging it all to yourself, islam could use that proof you found, god knows it's been looking for some for centuries.....

[Darkstar]

Personally i found a lot of proof for Islam.

Then you should stop hogging it all to yourself, islam could use that proof you found, god knows it's been looking for some for centuries.....

Religious logic:

Standard of proof for science: very high

Standard of proof for other religions: impossibly high

Standard of proof for own religion: zero

[ThatMuslimGuy]

re-editing so readable.