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RE: Christ's birthday
October 23, 2009 at 12:04 pm
(This post was last modified: October 23, 2009 at 12:06 pm by chatpilot.)
rjh4 the evidence for belief in God and specifically Christianity is seriously lacking and against all reason. It in my case is not about evidence I am willing to accept but rather evidence that as Craveman states is lacking.
All the evidence for Christianity is circumstantial at best and just because a majority of the populace believes it does not make it true. As our knowledge and understanding of the world we live in becomes clearer through the various disciplines of scientific study religion gets pushed back further into the corner of ignorance. Outside of the gospels there is no solid proof about the existence of Jesus, his miracles or exploits. Taking faith out of the equation only makes matters worse for the case for Christianity. The gospels we have now are:
1. Translations of several foreign and ancient languages
2. Even in their so called original languages they don't exist as original documents but copies of copies of copies.
3. None of the synoptic gospels which are supposed to be the biographical aspects of the life and ministry of Jesus are first hand accounts.
4. In fact the authors names attributed to them Matthew, Mark, and Luke were not attached to those documents till the middle of the 2nd century.
5. Mark being the oldest of the gospels ca. 70 AD is believed to have written his gospel from an hypothetical source document that scholars call Q from the German word quell for source. This so called document does not exist.
The Q document came into existence by piecing together all the similarities from the other two gospels and assuming that they all used portions of this so called document verbatim. The argument from design falls flat since not everything we see in the natural world shows signs of intelligent design. There are many things in nature that are flawed and there is chaos amid all the so called design. In conclusion Christianity is nothing more and nothing less than a myth just like all the other religious belief systems that preceded it.
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 23, 2009 at 12:21 pm
[quote="AngelaRachnid"] lets go with a nature one so your everyday house plant can be an alter to worship [quote/]
I bow down to you ye yew tree. Mine is not to question or reason why, mine is merely but to pay and die 
[quote="rjh4"] Is there really a lack of evidence or merely a lack of evidence that you would accept? Is this lack of evidence for Christianity, or lack of evidence that you will accept, your reason for being an atheist? [quote/]
Not only is there lack of evidence but the "evidence" that is given is (a) not plausible and (b)don't make any sense. Therefore, I converted to atheism, simple! If you can provide me with any plausible evidence/reason/arguments, I will gladly convert back to Christianity
Have you ever researched Christianity? Would you consider joining the "dark side"  Or are you happy with "blindly accepting Christianity" and "having faith"?
One thing that I've accepted as an atheist is that I only have one life and I will live it to the full! I would suggest you do the same 
Spinoza Wrote:God is the Asylum of Ignorance
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 23, 2009 at 12:59 pm
(October 23, 2009 at 12:21 pm)Craveman Wrote: Not only is there lack of evidence but the "evidence" that is given is (a) not plausible and (b)don't make any sense. Therefore, I converted to atheism, simple! If you can provide me with any plausible evidence/reason/arguments, I will gladly convert back to Christianity
Sounds like you are saying that there is evidence or reasoning that people give for Christianity but you do not find it plausible. What evidence would you accept for Chrisianity? Or would you reject all possible evidence based on a presupposition of atheism?
(October 23, 2009 at 12:21 pm)Craveman Wrote: Have you ever researched Christianity?
Yes...and I continue to learn every day.
(October 23, 2009 at 12:21 pm)Craveman Wrote: Would you consider joining the "dark side" Or are you happy with "blindly accepting Christianity" and "having faith"?
One thing that I've accepted as an atheist is that I only have one life and I will live it to the full! I would suggest you do the same
No, thank you. I am happy accepting Chrisianity. I do not think I accept it blindly as there are reasons. I would like to know why you think atheism as you see it does not require faith.
Lastly, for this post, I am all for living life to the full and try to do this. I think we would have different definitions for what this means, though.
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 23, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Rjh4,
Atheism takes as much faith as it takes money NOT to collect stamps.
Rhizo
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 23, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Quote:I wonder what you would say about the following passage from the Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus in Annals XV, 44:
Not that you have any wish to hear it but for the others.....
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/3678/Nero.htm
Quote:According to Tacitus, alone, Nero blamed the Christians for the fire in Rome. Annals, XV. This passage is not referred to in any other pagan, nor Christian writings until 400 CE. The Fantastic details of the sufferings of the Christians - dressed in animal hides and torn apart by dogs, crucified, and used as human torches - fits the pornographic masochistic obsession of the early Church.
C. 404 AD, the Christian writer, Sulpicius Severus wrote Chronica and in Book 2, #29 he makes some reference to Nero blaming xtians for the fire and indulging in all sorts of barbaric tortures, which is what the author refers to above.
Severus, however, does not mention the Pilate or Christus portions of your Tacitus reference. Those show up in a manuscript which dates to the 11th century.
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 23, 2009 at 3:06 pm
(October 23, 2009 at 2:15 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:I wonder what you would say about the following passage from the Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus in Annals XV, 44:
Not that you have any wish to hear it but for the others.....
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/3678/Nero.htm
Quote:According to Tacitus, alone, Nero blamed the Christians for the fire in Rome. Annals, XV. This passage is not referred to in any other pagan, nor Christian writings until 400 CE. The Fantastic details of the sufferings of the Christians - dressed in animal hides and torn apart by dogs, crucified, and used as human torches - fits the pornographic masochistic obsession of the early Church.
C. 404 AD, the Christian writer, Sulpicius Severus wrote Chronica and in Book 2, #29 he makes some reference to Nero blaming xtians for the fire and indulging in all sorts of barbaric tortures, which is what the author refers to above.
Severus, however, does not mention the Pilate or Christus portions of your Tacitus reference. Those show up in a manuscript which dates to the 11th century.
Thank you for the article. Am I correct then in assuming that you see this as support for discrediting the Tacitus quote I provided previously? I wonder...do you agree with all of the support the author provides or just some of it? If only some of it, which support do you agree with and which do you not agree with and why?
Rhizomorph13 Wrote:Atheism takes as much faith as it takes money NOT to collect stamps.
That is merely a statement that your atheism does not require faith. I questioned why you or others here think so.
Chatpilot Wrote:not everything we see in the natural world shows signs of intelligent design
Are you agreeing then that some things we see in the natural world shows signs of intelligent design?
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 23, 2009 at 3:38 pm
(This post was last modified: October 23, 2009 at 3:45 pm by chatpilot.)
No, intelligent design is nothing more than an illusion. Just like every Christians personal interpretations of the scriptures. Saying that atheism requires faith is like saying that a clown doesn't need make up. I am not an atheist because I have faith in atheism I am an atheist because faith makes no sense.
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 23, 2009 at 3:48 pm
(October 23, 2009 at 3:38 pm)chatpilot Wrote: No, intelligent design is nothing more than an illusion.
How do you know? What is your standard for detemining what is an illusion and what is not?
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 23, 2009 at 5:26 pm
(This post was last modified: October 23, 2009 at 5:28 pm by chatpilot.)
What you call design I call adaptation simple as that. Evolution by the process of natural selection is an established fact and is a more plausible explanation then God did it.
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 23, 2009 at 5:29 pm
(October 23, 2009 at 3:06 pm)rjh4 Wrote: Rhizomorph13 Wrote:Atheism takes as much faith as it takes money NOT to collect stamps.
That is merely a statement that your atheism does not require faith. I questioned why you or others here think so.
I suppose I need to clarify my statement so it is more accurate. Faith is a way to accept something. Agnostic Atheism is rejecting all gods due to there being no good reason to accept any of them. Strong atheism, which makes the statement, "God does not exist." requires faith because there is no proof that god does not exist, so it is a belief upheld by faith alone. So some atheists require faith.
So, more accuratly stated, my atheism requires as much faith as it takes money NOT to collect stamps.
Rhizo
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