Religion is brilliant.

[Phish]

Ok.

Religion was made (as far as i can see),to change humanity to better,to use fear to control the stupid and violent people(to reward good and punish bad) ,to change them,so that we would all be kind to each other,we would respect other people we wouldn't kill others,we wont steal... and so on.

But where did it go wrong? Why did religion destroy humanity instead it would help them?

[Something completely different]

Ok.

Religion was made (as far as i can see),to change humanity to better,to use fear to control the stupid and violent people(to reward good and punish bad) ,to change them,so that we would all be kind to each other,we would respect other people we wouldn't kill others,we wont steal... and so on.

But where did it go wrong? Why did religion destroy humanity instead it would help them?

If you want to see the earliest form of religion go to southern France and take a look at the cave paintings. Religion simply started as an explanation for the unknown and something to give a person meaning to his or her life. And it would have been great if it would have stayed a personal decision on giving oneself meaning.

What went wrong was that it became organised and a political movement.

I personaly have absolutly no problem with people who chose faith as a personal way of giving oneself meaning. Or even if people find themselves together and organise a comunity.

It`s the claim of moral supiriority and it`s political mutation with which I have problems.

[CapnAwesome]

Well I have to separate belief from religion here. I think the idea of the supernatural has been around forever, as in the cave paintings in France. That is different from religion being around though. The first religion came with the first person who decided that he wanted power and position in society and didn't want to do any real work for it. It was founded by hucksters and frauds. It HAD to be. The early Shamans and Priests made claims for the supernatural or to speak with the gods, but they knew very well that they didn't.

[Phish]

Well I have to separate belief from religion here. I think the idea of the supernatural has been around forever, as in the cave paintings in France. That is different from religion being around though. The first religion came with the first person who decided that he wanted power and position in society and didn't want to do any real work for it. It was founded by hucksters and frauds. It HAD to be. The early Shamans and Priests made claims for the supernatural or to speak with the gods, but they knew very well that they didn't.

p.s: check this out

[Confused Ape]

The early Shamans and Priests made claims for the supernatural or to speak with the gods, but they knew very well that they didn't.

Altered States Of Consciousness - Archaeology and the Shaman

One of the primary tools of the religious specialist called shaman, the visions characterized by (anthropology-defined) Altered States of Consciousness can be achieved through fasting, dehydration, lack of sleep, blood loss, extreme pain, chanting, sweat lodges, and ingesting psychoactive drugs. In this manner, shamans reach trance states in which they may travel to the underworld, gain help from spirits, manipulate the weather, find lost objects or help with pain or fertility problems.

Early shamans and priests had no knowledge of neuroscience so they would have interpreted these visions as being real.

[TaraJo]

When Friedrich Nietzsche stated that God is dead, this is exactly what he was talking about. God was supposed to be useful as a method of controling our more unacceptable behaviors, but we're still exhibiting those behaviors. So, if God doesn't actually help with that, what use is he? God becomes useless, at best, and justification for bad behavior, at worst.

[thesummerqueen]

Confused Ape got to it first. They really did think they were having visions from the divine, as did (and do) many 'crazy' or drug-addled people.

Organized religion should not be confused with a belief in or perceived contact with the supernatural. Organized religion has always been devoted to control, and has always been based on the values of the head of said religion. Whether or not it was meant to make you a better person in reality only mattered if it coincided with said person's goals for power.

[Confused Ape]

When Friedrich Nietzsche stated that God is dead, this is exactly what he was talking about. God was supposed to be useful as a method of controling our more unacceptable behaviors, but we're still exhibiting those behaviors. So, if God doesn't actually help with that, what use is he? God becomes useless, at best, and justification for bad behavior, at worst.

The human brain hasn't changed since the days of the first shamans. Modern people still have subjective experiences which they interpret as being a deity. Modern people still use techniques which they believe will put them in touch with a deity. Here's an example from the modern, Western world.

Glossolalia

Incomprehensible speech in an imaginary language, sometimes occurring in a trance state, an episode of religious ecstasy, or schizophrenia.

Here's a short video showing speaking in tongues. The people at the service have worked themselves up into a kind of ecstatic hysteria and, when it's all calmed down, many of them are crying in the way that humans often do when they're deeply moved by something. Some people just believe anything they're told. Others believe in what organised religion tells them because they have subjective experiences which they interpret as confirming what they're told.

http://youtu.be/whpHwKlM_8M

[genkaus]

Ok.

Religion was made (as far as i can see),to change humanity to better,to use fear to control the stupid and violent people(to reward good and punish bad) ,to change them,so that we would all be kind to each other,we would respect other people we wouldn't kill others,we wont steal... and so on.

But where did it go wrong? Why did religion destroy humanity instead it would help them?

Where did it go wrong? That assumes that there was something right about it to begin with. Trying to make someone better through lies, threats and fanciful stories the acceptance of which is contingent upon a person giving up his own rationality and judgment is like building a house on tilted foundation - it goes crooked sooner or later.

[Phish]

Confused Ape got to it first. They really did think they were having visions from the divine, as did (and do) many 'crazy' or drug-addled people.

Organized religion should not be confused with a belief in or perceived contact with the supernatural. Organized religion has always been devoted to control, and has always been based on the values of the head of said religion. Whether or not it was meant to make you a better person in reality only mattered if it coincided with said person's goals for power.

Wait i use salvia divinorum and i never have seen any religions visions,so why don't i have religious visions and other people do?

Where did it go wrong? That assumes that there was something right about it to begin with. Trying to make someone better through lies, threats and fanciful stories the acceptance of which is contingent upon a person giving up his own rationality and judgment is like building a house on tilted foundation - it goes crooked sooner or later.

but still,a lie told often enough becomes the truth.
If you make a lie make it big and simple people will follow it.