Religion and LGBT people

[Mystical]

I could be with a woman just as easily as I could be with a man. I like both. What's your point? Do you even have one or are you just going to keep pretending that what I'm saying is in alignment with your baseless opinion?

[John V]

I could be with a woman just as easily as I could be with a man. I like both. What's your point? Do you even have one or are you just going to keep pretending that what I'm saying is in alignment with your baseless opinion?

I'm not pretending. What you're saying is indeed in alignment with what I've been saying.

[Mystical]

I could be with a woman just as easily as I could be with a man. I like both. What's your point? Do you even have one or are you just going to keep pretending that what I'm saying is in alignment with your baseless opinion?

I'm not pretending. What you're saying is indeed in alignment with what I've been saying.

See no it isn't. Again you're missing the point in your excitement so I'll lay it out for you.

You're saying people can change their orientation at will. I'm saying people can't. I'm oriented towards women naturally, but acquired an attraction to men. That doesn't mean I'm straight because newsflash: I still like women, idiot.

[CleanShavenJesus]

The Bible clearly states that is a sin to a lie with another man. Yet homosexuals don't choose to be homosexual, they are born homosexual.

Can you prove that?

The modern western mainstream paradigm of sexuality is modern and western, and serves a political purpose.

Actually yes, I can.

Leviticus 18:22: You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

This varies with translations, but they all either say homosexuality is detestable, disgusting, or an abomonation.

[John V]

I was referring to the second statement - thought the reference to sexual paradigms made that clear. it did for everyone else, anyway.

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See no it isn't. Again you're missing the point in your excitement so I'll lay it out for you.

You're saying people can change their orientation at will.

No, as no one's defined "at will" for me yet. Everyone keeps telling me I'm arguing that though. Actually, I proposed that a bi continuum paradigm reflects relaity better than a strict born gay/bi/straight paradigm.

I'm saying people can't. I'm oriented towards women naturally, but acquired an attraction to men.

An orientation is an enduring pattern of attraction. You acquired an attraction to men and it stuck. To-may-to, to-mah-to.

That doesn't mean I'm straight because newsflash: I still like women, idiot.

I never argued that you were straight, shit-for-brains.

[CleanShavenJesus]

See, I had a slight feeling you were talking about the second statement, but I thought, "no, he couldn't possibly be that dumb."

[John V]

See, I had a slight feeling you were talking about the second statement, but I thought, "no, he couldn't possibly be that dumb."

Yeah, whatever, I've already been through it with others.

[Mystical]

I think I've gone and confused you. I was trying to make it simple for you but I see where I may have confused you. My childhood was, confusing..
When I was little I did like boys too. If given a choice though, I would've chosen girls over boys. I preferred girls. But, I did like boys. My crushes at school were on boys but I loved my best friend girls more than anyone and more than a friend should. I had sexual experiences with both boys and girls, back when I didn't know that girl girl was wrong. I always thought that I was a closet lesbian because I preferred women over men as a teenager. The fact that what I wanted was taboo in my life at the time, meant the choice was made for me. And I adapted to like men more than women as an adult, as a result.
Obviously I'm new to this whole identifying thing but I still think my point stands and that is that we don't choose who we are, we just are because I still like women no matter if my attractive percentage has shifted from women to men. Even if I said I was straight and never touched a woman the rest of my life, that wouldn't change the fact that I indeed like women intrinistically. It's just who I am. I can't change it.

[John V]

I think I've gone and confused you. I was trying to make it simple for you but I see where I may have confused you. My childhood was, confusing..
When I was little I did like boys too. If given a choice though, I would've chosen girls over boys. I preferred girls. But, I did like boys. My crushes at school were on boys but I loved my best friend girls more than anyone and more than a friend should. I had sexual experiences with both boys and girls, back when I didn't know that girl girl was wrong. I always thought that I was a closet lesbian because I preferred women over men as a teenager. The fact that what I wanted was taboo in my life at the time, meant the choice was made for me. And I adapted to like men more than women as an adult, as a result.
Obviously I'm new to this whole identifying thing but I still think my point stands and that is that we don't choose who we are, we just are because I still like women no matter if my attractive percentage has shifted from women to men. Even if I said I was straight and never touched a woman the rest of my life, that wouldn't change the fact that I indeed like women intrinistically. It's just who I am. I can't change it.

No, I understood it. The important part is that your "attractive percentage has shifted from women to men." Remember, I'm suggesting a bi continuum model in which change isn't an either/or thing, but rather a slide up or down the continuum. You fit that model nicely.

I've had two gay friends (one male, one female) with whom I was close enough that sexuality came up in conversation. They were each more attracted to the same sex, but each was also willing to have sex with the opposite sex if a same partner wasn't available. I said to each, "So you're bi, not gay." Each quickly and strongly said that they were completely gay. Seemed illogical to me (and still does), but they were friends and I wasn't out to prove a point, I was just making an observation, and dropped it.

Does it make sense to refer to someone who is attracted to both sexes, and sexually active with both sexes, as G/L? Not to me.

[fr0d0]

Wouldn't it be great if we were free to be whatever we wanted sexually. So much stigma and condemnation about everything, when really people should be expressing themselves as they're led to do.
I like the gay debate, because it highlights an inequality and gets it thrashed out. Other inequalities that aren't fashionable can take secret hope.