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(March 16, 2013 at 2:00 am)Godschild Wrote: Those who teach falsely will be punished, Matt. 5-19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Not the spanking you had in mind is it.
How do you interpret the statement from Matthew 5:19? Does this mean that those who "annul" any of the commandments will still go to heaven, but be in some kind of subordinate or lesser position? Does this imply a caste system in heaven? Or is he referring to judgment from on high? (ie, he shall be called least [by those who are] in the kingdom of heaven)
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
March 16, 2013 at 7:12 pm (This post was last modified: March 16, 2013 at 7:17 pm by Godscreated.)
(March 16, 2013 at 9:09 am)Tonus Wrote: Hi Godschild,
(March 16, 2013 at 2:00 am)Godschild Wrote: Those who teach falsely will be punished, Matt. 5-19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Not the spanking you had in mind is it.
How do you interpret the statement from Matthew 5:19? Does this mean that those who "annul" any of the commandments will still go to heaven, but be in some kind of subordinate or lesser position? Does this imply a caste system in heaven? Or is he referring to judgment from on high? (ie, he shall be called least [by those who are] in the kingdom of heaven)
Tonus,
The only ones going to heaven are those who believe in Christ as their savior and in heaven there will be no class of people, not as we understand it. For those in heaven to think of others as lower than themselves would be to judge, this would be sinful and sin will not be in heaven. God is the only judge, when the finial judgement is over there will be no need for further judgement, judgement comes because of sin and like I said above there will be no more sin. Saying all this I still have not answered your question about the kingdom of heaven, I gave this to show that Matt. 5:19 was not about the finial destination of the saved. I as one of the saved am already in the kingdom of heaven and have been a teacher of God's word, this is what Matt. 5:19 is about, the here and now.
(March 16, 2013 at 2:44 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:
(March 16, 2013 at 2:39 am)Godschild Wrote:
Hey Kich, I'm OK need some time to examine myself, I did not like the attitude I was presenting here. This means I will not be as involved as before, but will be active to some degree, yet to be determined.
I hope you and everyone else has been well.
You sound disappointed Min. I want be as active as I was in the past, so you want have to put up with me as much.
Sorry to just pop in here, no intention of derailing the thread.
Glad things are good for you G-C
Thanks Kich
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(March 16, 2013 at 1:17 am)whateverist Wrote: I've always thought that setting the bar at "omni-" was just too high.
Sometimes I think all the "omni-" words fall into what I call "church-speak", phrases that get used so often they become meaningless. I find it helpful to toy around with the order to see subtle shift in undestanding. What if instead of calling God 'All powerful' we said 'power over all', or suppose instead of 'all knowing' we just say he knows everything there is to know?
To which I always want to ask but what if your god turned out only to be pretty darned powerful, but not over everything. And what if it only knew way more than anyone else but far less than everything. Would you then send it packing for it having failed to live up to your expectation? How could people then (or now for that matter) possibly take the measure of the god you believe in accurately? Are you equipped to make that measurement? Who is?
(March 16, 2013 at 8:27 am)ChadWooters Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='415483' dateline='1363415989']...I'm OK need some time to examine myself, I did not like the attitude I was presenting here.
ChadWooters Wrote:I know the feeling. You were a lightning rod for abuse. I took a breather for a while because the vulgarity and vileness got to me, but then I remembered the few members I respected and though about those who read without posting.
Hey Chad,
Yeah I let to much stuff in that I should of kept out, want let that happen again, Christians should have a kindness about them, but at the same time stand for what they believe, I believe these are the ones Christ called the meek.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(March 16, 2013 at 7:12 pm)Godschild Wrote: I as one of the saved am already in the kingdom of heaven and have been a teacher of God's word, this is what Matt. 5:19 is about, the here and now.
March 17, 2013 at 12:12 am (This post was last modified: March 17, 2013 at 12:14 am by Neo-Scholastic.)
(March 16, 2013 at 7:24 pm)whateverist Wrote: To which I always want to ask but what if your god turned out only to be pretty darned powerful, but not over everything. And what if it only knew way more than anyone else but far less than everything.
Those questions don't really apply to my conception of the Lord. My understanding of the Lord is very entangled with my beliefs about the nature of reality. I can say this though. I believe the Lord only knows what is possible to know. The future does not yet exist, so there isn't anything to have knowledge of. So I differ greatly from those who believe that God sees into the future.
(March 16, 2013 at 7:24 pm)whateverist Wrote: To which I always want to ask but what if your god turned out only to be pretty darned powerful, but not over everything. And what if it only knew way more than anyone else but far less than everything.
Those questions don't really apply to my conception of the Lord. My understanding of the Lord is very entangled with my beliefs about the nature of reality. I can say this though. I believe the Lord only knows what is possible to know. The future does not yet exist, so there isn't anything to have knowledge of. So I differ greatly from those who believe that God sees into the future.
That's interesting. If you believe the future is unknown to god and accept that evolution describes the manner in which all life has come to be in its present form on this planet then you must believe that god was not necessarily intending for man to be exactly as we are. Perhaps He would have been fine with it humans never existed.
Wait, even if god doesn't have perfect knowledge of the future you probably believe that god is powerful enough that if He intended to create man by way of evolution he could have made it work out this way. I'm not sure what you believe about the creation/evolution of man. Please tell.
(March 16, 2013 at 7:12 pm)Godschild Wrote: Tonus,
The only ones going to heaven are those who believe in Christ as their savior and in heaven there will be no class of people, not as we understand it. For those in heaven to think of others as lower than themselves would be to judge, this would be sinful and sin will not be in heaven. God is the only judge, when the finial judgement is over there will be no need for further judgement, judgement comes because of sin and like I said above there will be no more sin. Saying all this I still have not answered your question about the kingdom of heaven, I gave this to show that Matt. 5:19 was not about the finial destination of the saved. I as one of the saved am already in the kingdom of heaven and have been a teacher of God's word, this is what Matt. 5:19 is about, the here and now.
Here's the problem with 2000 year old institutions...they're fucking boring! To prove my point, allow me to put an old joke in first person....
So there I was in a Catholic pew, one week from confirmation. My torment was a fine woman, my mother's age, seated directly in front of me. Today, one might affectionately refer to her as a MILF or cougar. Keep in mind that Mass is an octogenarian aerobic workout...sit, kneel, bend, stand.
She stood up and had much of her dress in the crack of her fine ass. I took it upon myself to pull it out. I was slapped for my chivalry. Having learned my lesson, I tucked it back in the next time she kneeled.
(March 17, 2013 at 1:18 am)whateverist Wrote: ...then you must believe that god was not necessarily intending for man to be exactly as we are. Perhaps He would have been fine with it humans never existed...Wait, even if god doesn't have perfect knowledge of the future you probably believe that god is powerful enough that if He intended to create man by way of evolution he could have made it work out this way...
Hairless bi-peds are not necessary. Moreover, there could already be countless forms of intelligent life scattered throughout the universe. Many of these could have radically different physiology. However, some form of sentient life would be an inevitable outcome of creation by an intelligent and self-aware Supreme Being.
(March 17, 2013 at 3:00 am)cato123 Wrote: Here's the problem with 2000 year old institutions...they're fucking boring!
God isn't boring. You are wrong. Studying theology is one of the most interesting things you can do. I can promise you that, if you study theology under the anointing of the Holy Spirit and you are receiving revelations, you start to see the pieces of the universe come to together and have insight. It is not boring at all.
Tonus,
Thanks Kich
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