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Was logic invented or discovered?
March 19, 2013 at 9:55 am
In the spirit of the pi thread here: was pi invented or discovered?, what are your thoughts on logic's existence?
This also comes about because someone, somewhere claimed that logic exists regardless of anything else, hence something can exist out of the Universe, which poofs a god into this kind of existence.
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RE: Was logic invented or discovered?
March 19, 2013 at 9:59 am
Again, lol, both.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Was logic invented or discovered?
March 19, 2013 at 11:31 am
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2013 at 11:31 am by Neo-Scholastic.)
Logic is a discipline derived from the belief in an orderly reality capable of being understood. The idea of a universe that is inherently orderly is a necessary axiom for rational thought.
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RE: Was logic invented or discovered?
March 19, 2013 at 11:32 am
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2013 at 11:33 am by The Grand Nudger.)
It's also a system derived from the (many) observation (s) that our universe is such a universe. Supposing it were not, it's entirely moot, the illusion is so complete as to render the alternative meaningless.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Was logic invented or discovered?
March 19, 2013 at 11:33 am
(March 19, 2013 at 11:31 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Logic is a discipline derived from the belief in an orderly reality capable of being understood. The idea of a universe that is inherently orderly is a necessary axiom for rational thought.
Ever heard of Quantum physics.
It is the opposite of inherently orderly.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Was logic invented or discovered?
March 19, 2013 at 11:33 am
(March 19, 2013 at 11:31 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Logic is a discipline derived from the belief in an orderly reality capable of being understood. The idea of a universe that is inherently orderly is a necessary axiom for rational thought.
Why do you think belief preceded observation? Much of logic is easily demonstrable.
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RE: Was logic invented or discovered?
March 19, 2013 at 11:34 am
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2013 at 11:34 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Not quite DPB, we can still make predictions that pan out with some reliability, so some sort of order is there, though we're unclear on the specifics.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Was logic invented or discovered?
March 19, 2013 at 2:20 pm
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2013 at 2:20 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(March 19, 2013 at 11:33 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: (March 19, 2013 at 11:31 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Logic is a discipline derived from the belief in an orderly reality capable of being understood. The idea of a universe that is inherently orderly is a necessary axiom for rational thought.
Why do you think belief preceded observation? Much of logic is easily demonstrable. Maybe you misunderstood or I was not sufficiently clear. Logic serves us at a very high level of cognition. Our application of that mental disciple gives meaning to observation. Observations, if taken to mean pattern recognition, sits down a notch, then perceptions, and down to sensation. Application of logic requires us to presuppose that each of these lower levels falls within a reality governed by intelligible laws.
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RE: Was logic invented or discovered?
March 19, 2013 at 2:24 pm
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2013 at 2:25 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Or we could doubt that it does and see where that takes us. Some folks love that word, presupposition, and it gets tossed around alot, but a great many "presuppositions" are no such thing, by simple definition. If the truth of something isn't taken for granted - it is not a presupposition. Things can also begin as presups, and leave that territory very quickly - specifically by yielding results (either affirmative or otherwise).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Was logic invented or discovered?
March 19, 2013 at 8:08 pm
(March 19, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Or we could doubt that it does and see where that takes us. It takes you no where. Without 'a priori' knowledge radical empiricism has nothing with which to cement experiences into knowledge.
(March 19, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Some folks love that word, presupposition, and it gets tossed around alot, but a great many "presuppositions" are no such thing, by simple definition. You have not shown, by either logic or evidence, the falsity of my statement "the idea of a universe that is inherently orderly is a necessary axiom for rational thought."
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