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RE: Uprooting believers.
March 31, 2013 at 2:39 pm
I wouldn't give up on it though.
Prophet Mohammad could have gave up, and he didn't have truth on his side, but with perseverance, convinced his society that what he was preaching was true.
If he can do it without truth on his side, who says we can't convince society to leave religion, with the truth on our side?
What we need is a person with charisma that comes out as genuine and sincere and full of compassionate concern for the religious. It has to be that way in their eyes. With all this mocking, and rudeness, I don't think we can get through to the religious that way.
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RE: Uprooting believers.
March 31, 2013 at 4:38 pm
(March 31, 2013 at 8:08 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Or maybe right? You can't possibly be wrong in philosophy if you back up your arguments properly. It's interesting stuff, but useless at the same time :p
Sure you can. From the very beginning: you took logic on faith. You trust in your ability to argue, in the validity of argument itself... considered that what you can see, hear, and feel is evidence of logic's truth... loftily rose yourself from but a part till you were valuing your own existence, an experience of which the only thing you can know through logic... is itself.
Wouldn't say its useless, but I'd rather have a sword.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: Uprooting believers.
March 31, 2013 at 4:44 pm
(March 31, 2013 at 2:39 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I wouldn't give up on it though.
Prophet Mohammad could have gave up, and he didn't have truth on his side, but with perseverance, convinced his society that what he was preaching was true. I doubt that this is actually what happened Mystic....lol
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Uprooting believers.
March 31, 2013 at 11:35 pm
How the fuck am I supposed to read this? I hope I typed this right. This message won't make sense on Apr. 2.
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RE: Uprooting believers.
April 1, 2013 at 4:05 am
(March 31, 2013 at 1:33 pm)Golbez Wrote: Yes, the forums are a great medium to ask such questions of the non-believers. I was kind of thinking like formulating a sort of thorough and rigorous explanation to show how religious people can be walked down from their position without hurting themselves (too much). I've been watching that Evid3nc3 series pretty much nonstop and he's basically done the work I was thinking of. Meticulously going point by point how he had been led to believe what he believes, and why each point had inherent flaws, and how those points could be dismantled. Glorious series. I was thinking something of that on a scholastic level, I guess.
I've been pondering on how to utilise Evid3nc3's method of viewing the religious experience in order to deconvert people as well. I think some of the effort needs to come from the believer themselves though. Except, they won't know they're headed in the direction of deconversion. That's pretty much what I did without knowing it; I decided to go out and confirm the "truths" I knew by looking for the historical & philosophical evidence/arguments, and from this sincere pursuit of truth, as a Christian, I came to a point where I simply couldn't take the cognitive dissonance anymore, and I "cracked" -- or deconverted.
Of course, I'm fairly young compared to the average age at this forum, so my pursuit for the truth wasn't at all influenced by the circumstances in my life. I mean, sure, I still had some things to lose like the church community I was a part of, my worship team position & generally being able to do life with my Christian friends. But I have the rest of my life in order to pursue a new direction and build my life around the values I now have. This most likely isn't true of our resident believers. I'm assuming the majority are either married and influential in their churches, or both. Therefore, seeing the light simply isn't something that can ever happen, and therefore that seed of humbleness and integrity that I had within me which enabled me to honestly search for truth won't ever be planted in them. Their bliss necessarily depends upon staying in the comfort of the darkness.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Uprooting believers.
April 1, 2013 at 4:11 am
I look at all of the believers and ex-believers and think to myself, what a bunch of fucking gullible sheeple...
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RE: Uprooting believers.
April 1, 2013 at 3:56 pm
And you have it all figured out?^
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RE: Uprooting believers.
April 1, 2013 at 3:59 pm
Well, he's using my smiley...so he probably has something figured out.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Uprooting believers.
April 1, 2013 at 4:23 pm
I wouldn't say I have it all figured out. However I knew what was bullshit since I was a wee itty bitty lad.
Be honest guys, did either of you believe in hell and were also happy about the concept?
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RE: Uprooting believers.
April 1, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Sounds like you knew what you didn't like. Not what was bullshit. I mean hell, I'm not happy about taxes, and yet they stubbornly refuse to cease existing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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