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genkaus · July 22, 2013 at 11:44 am

(July 22, 2013 at 7:34 am)fr0d0 Wrote: How are you supporting the idea if an uncaused universe genakaus?

I am.

(July 22, 2013 at 7:34 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Both caused and uncaused could involve a God I'd think.

And both are possible without one.

~~fr0d0~~ · July 22, 2013 at 12:46 pm

Atlas upgraded! kudos! Big Grin

I think I like you genakaus Wink

Tonus · July 22, 2013 at 12:59 pm

(July 19, 2013 at 12:12 am)genkaus Wrote:
(July 18, 2013 at 10:12 pm)Consilius Wrote: Is pool water colored?
No - and that's my point. Pool water is not colored and yet the pool - which is entirely made of poo water - is colored.

In which case it's brown, not blue. Angel

Consilius · (This post was last modified: July 23, 2013 at 1:09 am by Consilius.)

(July 22, 2013 at 7:10 am)genkaus Wrote: As long as you keep repeating your mistake, I'll keep correcting you.

The 'whole is same as parts' doesnt make sense even if the attribute in question is absolute. And you are the one who brought up the brick.
And the grouping of composite parts need affect the whole - that is the crux of this discussion. And the same way that water is colorless, while the lake is blue or that the attributes of sodium and chlorine are not present in the salt, an uncaused universe can be made of caused things.

As for the unbreakable machine - once again you are reinforcing my point. Something made of unbreakable pars can be breakable. The fallacy of composition applies in all examples. This discussion cannot go any further until you see your error.

I feel our debate is boiling down.
A point of correction would be that the way machine parts are joined-even inertia-is part of the machine.
Finally, there are definite reasons why lakes are blue and salt isn't poisonous. Why should I believe that the universe had no beginning? Is there a reason that caused elements should make an uncaused whole?

pineapplebunnybounce · July 23, 2013 at 12:26 am

I wanted to stay away from this but .... you've wandered into my territory. Salt is poisonous.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cpdb/chempages...ORIDE.html

Have a good read. Everything is poisonous at the right dose.

genkaus · (This post was last modified: July 23, 2013 at 1:37 am by genkaus.)

(July 23, 2013 at 12:06 am)Consilius Wrote: A point of correction would be that the way machine parts are joined-even inertia-is part of the machine.

A point of correction in the correction would be that the machine would be breakable even if I am using nuts and bolts of the same unbreakable material to make the joints.

(July 23, 2013 at 12:06 am)Consilius Wrote: Finally, there are definite reasons why lakes are blue and salt isn't poisonous. Why should I believe that the universe had no beginning? Is there a reason that caused elements should make an uncaused whole?

You've been given the reason many times already. Causation is a temporal phenomena and time is an aspect of the universe. For there to be a cause of the universe, time would have to exist independently - which to our knowledge - it doesn't, so there isn't.

(July 23, 2013 at 12:26 am)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: I wanted to stay away from this but .... you've wandered into my territory. Salt is poisonous.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cpdb/chempages...ORIDE.html

Have a good read. Everything is poisonous at the right dose.

Even water is poisonous at the right does. Reasonable consumption is an unspoken assumption here.

pineapplebunnybounce · July 23, 2013 at 1:39 am

(July 23, 2013 at 1:35 am)genkaus Wrote:
(July 23, 2013 at 12:26 am)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: I wanted to stay away from this but .... you've wandered into my territory. Salt is poisonous.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cpdb/chempages...ORIDE.html

Have a good read. Everything is poisonous at the right dose.

Even water is poisonous at the right does. Reasonable consumption is an unspoken assumption here.

Yea, should've changed that to salt can be poisonous. And not the same way that sodium or chloride is, since i just realized what you guys are arguing about.

Godscreated · July 23, 2013 at 3:16 am

(July 23, 2013 at 12:26 am)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: I wanted to stay away from this but .... you've wandered into my territory. Salt is poisonous.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cpdb/chempages...ORIDE.html

Have a good read. Everything is poisonous at the right dose.

Not God.

**Silver** · July 23, 2013 at 3:21 am

(July 23, 2013 at 3:16 am)Godschild Wrote: Not God.

Especially the concept of god is poisonous.

Godscreated · July 23, 2013 at 3:44 am

(July 23, 2013 at 3:21 am)Maelstrom Wrote:
(July 23, 2013 at 3:16 am)Godschild Wrote: Not God.

Especially the concept of god is poisonous.

The concept of gods is dangerous, the reality of God is life.

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