Why I Am Pro-Life

[NoraBrimstone]

So you believe women should be punished for the rest of their lives for having sex, and you don't see how that is internalised sexism? Are you serious?

[Rahul]

But when does the magical journey of consciousness begin? Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...ness-arise

As far as I'm concerned until consciousness clicks on no person exists. Just a biologically maturing fetus with no real mind. No consciousness, no human. Just a potential future human.

[Slave]

So you believe women should be punished for the rest of their lives for having sex, and you don't see how that is internalised sexism? Are you serious?

Sigh.

No Nora, I don't believe this is about punishing women. Sex, like everything else, has consequences. I think that any woman alive today, who at least lives in a modernized society with access to birth control and information about reproduction and biology, should accept that pregnancy is a potential consequence of sex. I believe that women should take every measure to ensure that pregnancy does not occur if she is (1) not ready to support the child financially, and (2) does not desire children.

There is no excuse, in my mind, for an unintended pregnancy to occur. Most forms of contraception decrease chances of pregnancy as much as 99%. Women can always use condoms as well as something like the BCP or coil, called 'Double Dutch', which effectively decreases chances of conception to 0. The morning after pill is available in most Western countries (I say most, as I understand particularly in the US many measures are taken against women having access to birth control), and can be kept on hand for incidences where a woman has impromptu sex without protection. As fertilization doesn't tend to occur until days after coitus, this effectively stops unwanted pregnancies from occurring, too.

For the women who use protection and fall pregnant regardless (which hardly happens anyway), I do sympathize. I am actually one such woman. I fell pregnant on the BCP so I know all too well that it can happen. However, I knew that there was a chance no matter slim, when I had sex, that I could fall pregnant. When I found out 6 weeks later after the fact that I was, I faced a decision to abort or continue with the pregnancy. I chose the latter because it wasn't in my heart to abort at the time. Keep in mind that I was pro-choice then, and my stance on this issue has changed only recently. I'll add here that I can even prove this. I had posted previously online about this issue, only months ago, arguing against what I am arguing now. If anyone here would like proof that my views have changed on the subject then I will give it freely.

We punish people for their reckless behavior that results in the death of human life in all other instances. I think it should be no different for women who fall pregnant. Given that I have argued a case for pro-life from a rational viewpoint, and not due to religiosity, to reduce my argumentation down to just some form of misogyny and hate for women makes no sense whatsoever.

@Rahul: If that is what you believe, you are welcome to it. I won't attempt to argue with you further.

[ITChick]

Slave, I'm still a bit confused. What is the punishment for the guy if we go down this route?

A life sentence in jail sound fair?

[NoraBrimstone]

So you believe women should be punished for the rest of their lives for having sex, and you don't see how that is internalised sexism? Are you serious?

Sigh.

No Nora, I don't believe this is about punishing women. Sex, like everything else, has consequences. I think that any woman alive today, who at least lives in a modernized society with access to birth control and information about reproduction and biology, should accept that pregnancy is a potential consequence of sex. I believe that women should take every measure to ensure that pregnancy does not occur if she is (1) not ready to support the child financially, and (2) does not desire children.

There is no excuse, in my mind, for an unintended pregnancy to occur. Most forms of contraception decrease chances of pregnancy as much as 99%. Women can always use condoms as well as something like the BCP or coil, called 'Double Dutch', which effectively decreases chances of conception to 0. The morning after pill is available in most Western countries (I say most, as I understand particularly in the US many measures are taken against women having access to birth control), and can be kept on hand for incidences where a woman has impromptu sex without protection. As fertilization doesn't tend to occur until days after coitus, this effectively stops unwanted pregnancies from occurring, too.

For the women who use protection and fall pregnant regardless (which hardly happens anyway), I do sympathize. I am actually one such woman. I fell pregnant on the BCP so I know all too well that it can happen. However, I knew that there was a chance no matter slim, when I had sex, that I could fall pregnant. When I found out 6 weeks later after the fact that I was, I faced a decision to abort or continue with the pregnancy. I chose the latter because it wasn't in my heart to abort at the time. Keep in mind that I was pro-choice then, and my stance on this issue has changed only recently. I'll add here that I can even prove this. I had posted previously online about this issue, only months ago, arguing against what I am arguing now. If anyone here would like proof that my views have changed on the subject then I will give it freely.

We punish people for their reckless behavior that results in the death of human life in all other instances. I think it should be no different for women who fall pregnant. Given that I have argued a case for pro-life from a rational viewpoint, and not due to religiosity, to reduce my argumentation down to just some form of misogyny and hate for women makes no sense whatsoever.

How can you start a post with "I don't believe this is about punishing women" then spend three paragraphs contradicting that?

[ITChick]

Good spot Nora, I didn't notice that.

To be honest, I think a lifetime in jail might be a bit too much. Maybe a bit more fair would be 9 months in jail. After that the two has the choise between adoption or the guy can spend half the time taking care of the child.

A life sentance in jail should only be enforced if neither of these options are acceptable.

[NoraBrimstone]

Good spot Nora, I didn't notice that.

To be honest, I think a lifetime in jail might be a bit too much. Maybe a bit more fair would be 9 months in jail. After that the two has the choise between adoption or the guy can spend half the time taking care of the child.

A life sentance in jail should only be enforced if neither of these options are acceptable.

I don't think jail is appropriate. It has to be something permanent to be equal, right? How about castration?

[pocaracas]

When I found out 6 weeks later after the fact that I was, I faced a decision to abort or continue with the pregnancy. I chose the latter because it wasn't in my heart to abort at the time. Keep in mind that I was pro-choice then, and my stance on this issue has changed only recently.

The ability to choose is a bit reassuring, don't you think?

In spite of all the information, all the available methods to prevent pregnancies, they can fail, and people can be momentarily stupid, drunk, or whatever, leading to a rationally unwanted pregnancy.
It's for these cases that the choice exists.
You may choose not to abort, if you feel it is wrong. (just like you did)
or
You may choose to abort, if you think you can't have that child.

It's this simple: Choice.

[Slave]

@Nora: You specified the term punishment. If you think that a woman carrying a pregnancy to term is a form of punishment for having sex, then a jail sentence for a man who kills a child while drink driving is his punishment. I don't view it as punishment. I view it as taking responsibility for your actions and more importantly for reckless behavior that results in innocent life being taken as a direct result.

@ITChick: *EDIT* Sorry, I misread what you said. A man's responsibility technically ends once he has ejaculated.

@pocaracas: I have never argued that choice shouldn't be there. fr0d0 and I have made this clear several times in previous posts.

[Minimalist]

No Nora, I don't believe this is about punishing women.

Oh, horseshit. You have yet to demonstrate where someone elses decision on this has any impact on you at all. Who gives a shit what you "believe?" You are trying to enforce your will on others.