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RE: beginning of The Universe theories
August 1, 2013 at 5:48 pm
(August 1, 2013 at 3:50 pm)John79 Wrote: This is a question i have wanted to ask atheists (and anyone else) for a long time. I would like to understand what you believe is the cause of the universe and the world's existance. Obviously Christians moslems and others believe in creation, and I think its true most or all atheists believe in a big bang theory.
i have read some about this theory and I can't find where the cause of it is explained. What do you think?
Short answer is: I don't believe anything.
The long answer...
According to recent research, somewhere in the past the whole Universe was in one tiny dot. Back then, this dot just burst and went through a few states until it got cool enough for atoms to neutralize and form stars, galaxies, planets...etc.
Now, we have no way of finding out what happened before this dot-state. We can only measure the Universe after this dot-state.
What caused this dot? I don't know.
And I refuse to say there was a super-mega being that made it, because of the obvious question that arises right after that: where did this being come from? How did it get to exist? What does it mean to exist outside of the Universe? What does it mean to exist outside of spacetime? What does "before" spacetime mean?
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RE: beginning of The Universe theories
August 1, 2013 at 5:51 pm
Douglas Adams Wrote:In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura
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RE: beginning of The Universe theories
August 1, 2013 at 5:59 pm
(August 1, 2013 at 3:50 pm)John79 Wrote: I would like to understand what you believe is the cause of the universe and the world's existance.
I have no idea. I was religious for many years, and I left it due to a lack of faith; I didn't find god and finally figured that he wasn't there to be found. I hadn't thought about the origins of the universe apart from the idea that an ever-present being decided to create it all one day. Since I don't believe that he's there, I don't believe that anymore. I have not filled that particular gap with anything, since I don't think science has come up with a definitive explanation, and many of the theories sound pretty crazy to someone (like me) with a relatively limited understanding of physics.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: beginning of The Universe theories
August 1, 2013 at 6:13 pm
(This post was last modified: August 1, 2013 at 6:13 pm by Napoléon.)
C'mon guys don't be so stupid.
The universe was made by some almighty bearded guy who lives in another dimension who made the entire universe as we know it in under 7 days then made all the animals and then made man but thought he was lonely so made a woman from his rib and these two people bonked and created the rest of humanity as we know it but somewhere along the line the woman (because it's always the fault of women) decided to eat some fruit from a magical tree and that made the almighty bearded guy mad so he cursed us for the rest of eternity and has a giant log book of our good and bad deeds, kind of like Santa 'cept this guy's real, and he decides what our fate is for the rest of eternity by our actions on this one tiny spec in the cosmos because he loves us except if we don't love him back.
Oh wait, I just made that up...
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RE: beginning of The Universe theories
August 1, 2013 at 6:26 pm
I believe that the universe was created 5 minutes ago with the appearance of being very, very old.
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RE: beginning of The Universe theories
August 1, 2013 at 7:41 pm
(August 1, 2013 at 6:26 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I believe that the universe was created 5 minutes ago with the appearance of being very, very old.
And smelly.
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RE: beginning of The Universe theories
August 1, 2013 at 7:49 pm
(August 1, 2013 at 3:50 pm)John79 Wrote: i have read some about this theory and I can't find where the cause of it is explained. What do you think?
The big bang isn't the cause. It's what happened after the cause. Perhaps that's why you can't find it.
Real answer: ???NOBODY KNOWS???
I liked the POElite way you asked though.
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RE: beginning of The Universe theories
August 1, 2013 at 8:03 pm
I don't know. Science is working on it.
That does not mean your ( or anyone's) vision of a god is true by default.
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RE: beginning of The Universe theories
August 1, 2013 at 8:10 pm
I do not believe in the Big Bang. I believe the Big Bang theory as modified by inflation is the most popular model that describes the early development of the universe. It is the most popular model because it is the one that best fits our observations. I do not know if that is what actually happened or not.
I know for a fact that the angry desert god Yahweh had nothing to do with the origins of the universe. I also know for a fact that some dude named Jesus didn’t die on cross so that my sins, which I never personally committed, could be forgiven thereby entitling me to some special place in an afterlife I doubt exists.
Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.
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RE: beginning of The Universe theories
August 1, 2013 at 8:36 pm
(August 1, 2013 at 3:50 pm)John79 Wrote: This is a question i have wanted to ask atheists (and anyone else) for a long time. I would like to understand what you believe is the cause of the universe and the world's existance. Obviously Christians moslems and others believe in creation, and I think its true most or all atheists believe in a big bang theory.
i have read some about this theory and I can't find where the cause of it is explained. What do you think?
Gosh John, I don't know how everything started. I don't know if everything really ever had a beginning. The big bang marks the beginning of everything we can observe and everything we can know. But we don't know what lies beyond what we know nor do we know what the conditions were which preceded the big bang which has given rise to ourselves as well. But how reasonable does it seem to expect a rock solid answer to such questions?
Lets try understanding some easier phenomena just to get some sense of how reasonable it is to expect to get closure on the ultimate beginning of everything.
Now numbers aren't properly 'things' but they start out easy to understand and recede into the esoteric just as questions of beginnings can. So counting numbers are most obvious and easily understood as representing quantities. Negative numbers are more of a reach but most of us manage to get our heads around them. Fractions are cognitively more difficult as I witness every day in my line of work, and even more so when they are used as exponents. Most of my eighth graders usually manage to get this far with some degree of success. Fortunately making sense of imaginary numbers isn't something I have to work for because this would be even more beyond the reach of much of the general population.
Understanding the beginnings of things likewise starts out easy and can get much, much more difficult. A watch is obviously a mechanical device which requires a maker, whether human or robotic. How exactly a human being is assembled is not yet entirely understood. We understand something about genes and inheritance and dominance but how exactly the information contained in DNA leads to the assemblage of each and everyone of us in not fully understood. Yet it is reasonable to expect progress here. Likewise how organisms change overtime is pretty well understood by way of evolution. But abiogenesis is not fully understood. This too we expect to make more progress on. But EVERYTHING? It is a real conundrum to imagine where anything would have come from prior to there being anything else. However you have to resist thinking that attributing it to the action of something even more farfetched or magical really advances our understanding. If at any point you have to say it was a genie or a god you have basically quit trying to understand. Magic is the opposite of understanding. At the very least you must still try and understand how genies and gods began, and if you want to say they have just always been then you might as well say the same about the universe as we find it. Better to quit the pursuit of understanding honestly than to think citing magic has any value.
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