Two consenting adults, including relatives?

[Lion IRC]

Check out the Discovery Channel pal!
You will see animals giving their consent to all sorts of stuff.

And if you honestly think there's no difference between animal consent and informed consent in a human, legal sense- which requires language...

animals cant...blah, blah, blah...because they don't...blah, blah, blah...everybody knows...blah, blah, blah... when I say "informed" I mean blah, blah, blah...

Wanna hear me spouting a whole lot of religious jargon and psychobabble to justify MY position?

[pocaracas]

Check out the Discovery Channel pal!
You will see animals giving their consent to all sorts of stuff.

And if you honestly think there's no difference between animal consent and informed consent in a human, legal sense- which requires language- then there is something deeply wrong with you.

I honestly haven't read the whole thread, but... you can't expect an animal to do something in accordance with a law that is in place for humans only.

[LastPoet]

Lion never saw cats doing it. Its one hell of a battle!

[Esquilax]

I honestly haven't read the whole thread, but... you can't expect an animal to do something in accordance with a law that is in place for humans only.

That's kind of my point.

animals cant...blah, blah, blah...because they don't...blah, blah, blah...everybody knows...blah, blah, blah... when I say "informed" I mean blah, blah, blah...

Wanna hear me spouting a whole lot of religious jargon and psychobabble to justify MY position?

Why bother? It won't be any more effective than the haughty smugness and dismissive dickery you're currently using in place of an actual argument.

[Napoléon]

IMO I'm not for incestual marriage as I think there are some significant risks involved with other potential human beings (this being the potential offspring).

Aside from this though, in essence, I guess it is just two consenting adults, so the inbreeding point is the only one I can really think of as a real argument against it. Still, I find the idea of sleeping with close relatives to be a morally reprehensible and downright fucked up thing to do.

[Rahul]

Inbreeding isn't as bad as is popularly depicted. It really only increases the emergence of recessive traits found within a particular family that may be harmful. With a little genetic screening it can be mitigated in groups of inbred populations.

Humans and other animals, though, have a natural aversion to mating with close relatives they were raised around.

Plus there's the ick factor.

[NoraBrimstone]

I don't think incest should be illegal or anything. I draw the line at siblings reproducing because of the problems that come from inbreeding, but other than that, it's nobody's business. I do think it's a bit gross, but so what? You can't go banning stuff just because some people think it's "gross". It's harmless, really, and shouldn't be a crime.

[Ben Davis]

IMO, anyone should be allowed to marry anyone they want or not, as they see fit, irrespective of the number of participants, as long as all parties are consenting & informed. Neither marriage nor its absence should be construed as defining the commitment-level of people to a relationship. Legal documents should be made freely available that allow all participants to define the depth of their commitment and there should be a legal obligation to secure certain aspects of this depth (e.g. shared debt/mortgage, protection of children/offspring). I think this framework should be applied in a well educated environment where people are made aware of their obligations as well as their social responsibilities.

I understand that humanities general reticence to engage in romantic relationships with family members is part evolutionary (e.g. instinctive avoidance of negative genetic factors) and part sociological (e.g. local culture/mores). Maybe some of our resident biologists & sociologists can comment on those mechanisms and provide some data to inform our discussion?

[Chad32]

I think it's called a westermark effect, where people who usually live together or in close proximity are less likely to fall in love. That's why siblings will usually look elsewhere for sexual partners, and childhood friends of the opposite gender will often be able to hang out casually without one making moves on the other.

Obviously it isn't fool proof.

[Zazzy]

An interesting article on why we may prefer genetically dissimilar mates. There's an ongoing argument about MHC heterozygosity in sexual selection, and it's a peppy discussion. You may be able to SMELL genetic difference in others without knowing it.