Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist

[Lemonvariable72]

Ah I think I have a better handle on what you mean then. In which case when it comes to new ideas that work instead rehashing old shit, I'm all ears.

[Esquilax]

Here's the thing about all this talk of precautions: yes, there are a set of behaviors that women can take that'll reduce the risk, but by and large, they're already taking them, because women aren't idiots and this shit is common sense. But there comes a point where the onus of safety also falls upon the person forcibly removing that safety by committing the crime at all, and unfortunately the actual conversation about it hasn't seemed to catch up yet. Rape is one of those very few crimes where the conversation can begin and end with what the victim could have done differently, as though it's just a naturally occurring event that requires no second party: "Oh, she shouldn't have been drunk/out alone/without a weapon etc etc"

Well, she also shouldn't have been around a rapist.

I've known more than a few women who've been raped, heard their stories, and it burns me up every time. The only common denominator is that a rapist was present. That's the only unifying factor, and yet here we are discussing women's safety again, instead of rapist prevention. I know the former seems more clearly delineated and easy, while the latter is perplexing and scary, but part of the reason these talks so often get bogged down like this is precisely because there's one seemingly easy path, despite the fact that, in truth, it's only (inexpertly) treating a symptom instead of the disease. And in the process, we end up encouraging women to close themselves off and be defensive while out... and then deride them for doing so when it's put into practice. I can't tell you how many women I've seen sworn at on the late train home, merely for the crime of not wanting strange male attention, called frigid bitches for doing precisely what they're encouraged to do to stop rape. This is supposed to be the simple answer to this problem?

[Lemonvariable72]

Well you see the stumpling block there I hope. There is a lot done to teach boys not to rape. So how do go about creating a rape free environment? Damn near impossible task, but let's see if we here can hammer own out. I definitely as I made clear before women being self possessed and to defend themselves is a feature of it. Though yes women are human too with all the same confidence issues as the rest of us.

[Esquilax]

Well you see the stumpling block there I hope. There is a lot done to teach boys not to rape.

Is there, though? I know I sailed through my schooling without a single word said about consent, not a single aspect of my sex ed courses spoke to this important issue. It doesn't really seem talked about at all, and those boys, once they reach sexual maturity, are entering an environment where the conversation on rape still hovers around what women can do, far too often. It's problematic; it turns consent issues into something that isn't the men's concern, making it more easy to blame women in the future. And really, even granting your premise here, the conclusion one comes to is that those educational efforts aren't sufficient; why should the next step be to put more responsibility onto the potential victims?

So how do go about creating a rape free environment? Damn near impossible task, but let's see if we here can hammer own out. I definitely as I made clear before women being self possessed and to defend themselves is a feature of it. Though yes women are human too with all the same confidence issues as the rest of us.

You probably can't create a rape free environment, just as you can't create a murder free one. But the response to that reality, in regards to murder, hasn't been to shift focus toward how non-murderers can prevent murder, or worse, victim blaming. For some reason, rape is the only crime where it's acceptable to throw up one's hands and concede ground to the rapists.

[Lemonvariable72]

Well you see the stumpling block there I hope. There is a lot done to teach boys not to rape.

Is there, though? I know I sailed through my schooling without a single word said about consent, not a single aspect of my sex ed courses spoke to this important issue. It doesn't really seem talked about at all, and those boys, once they reach sexual maturity, are entering an environment where the conversation on rape still hovers around what women can do, far too often. It's problematic; it turns consent issues into something that isn't the men's concern, making it more easy to blame women in the future. And really, even granting your premise here, the conclusion one comes to is that those educational efforts aren't sufficient; why should the next step be to put more responsibility onto the potential victims?

So how do go about creating a rape free environment? Damn near impossible task, but let's see if we here can hammer own out. I definitely as I made clear before women being self possessed and to defend themselves is a feature of it. Though yes women are human too with all the same confidence issues as the rest of us.

You probably can't create a rape free environment, just as you can't create a murder free one. But the response to that reality, in regards to murder, hasn't been to shift focus toward how non-murderers can prevent murder, or worse, victim blaming. For some reason, rape is the only crime where it's acceptable to throw up one's hands and concede ground to the rapists.

When I was in sex ed it was discussed and a few times they'd had speakers in to talk it as well. I'll never forget because the women told us that if you have sex with someone who is drunk its rape ( that I disagree with).

[Esquilax]

When I was in sex ed it was discussed and a few times they'd had speakers in to talk it as well. I'll never forget because the women told us that if you have sex with someone who is drunk its rape ( that I disagree with).

Perhaps I should have factored in how inexpert the Australian sex ed classes are.

That said, I still find problems with the logic of "this has been discussed," as though the mere fact of discussion means that it has been discussed sufficiently.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

When I was in sex ed it was discussed and a few times they'd had speakers in to talk it as well. I'll never forget because the women told us that if you have sex with someone who is drunk its rape ( that I disagree with).

Perhaps I should have factored in how inexpert the Australian sex ed classes are.

That said, I still find problems with the logic of "this has been discussed," as though the mere fact of discussion means that it has been discussed sufficiently.

Or properly.

It's still very popular opinion that women need to protect themselves, as if we don't already do that. People also tend to talk about the kinds of rape where there are "preventative measures" more than those that do not have any obvious measures. They talk about not being drunk at night on the street. But people rarely talk about stepfathers raping their stepchildren or boyfriends who rape their girlfriends and similar types of situations. Some people don't even know these things happen as often as they do. Nobody talks about how to reduce the amount of rapist in our communities. I'm not saying that these other things aren't important but there's a huge area that is not discussed that is affecting many many people.

[rexbeccarox]

I feel like most people who were never victims of rape see rape as some creepy guy jumping out of the bushes. That's actually rarely the case. My pepper spray or my keys woven into my fingers (I weave my keys and I cock and aim my pepper spray when I'm out walking alone) might work great if it comes to that, but I'm a slight, not very strong person, and statistics say, I'll be raped by someone I trust, so the pepper spray is almost moot.

Some Statistics from RAINN

Two points, though (one, an anecdote):
1. I trust everyone I'm close to implicitly. I can't see one of them raping anyone, especially their loved ones... not for a moment.

2. I was one in a "jumped out of the bushes" type scenario. I was on the interstate on my way home from work at about 11:30 PM when I popped a tire. This was over a decade ago, and I had a cell phone, but it wasn't active or even charged, so I was SOL. Luckily, I was close to an offramp, so the area was fairly well-lit, and I went around to the back of my car to check the damage. My tire was shredded, and I had just popped a different one a week earlier, so no spare. Fuck. I stood there, staring at it for a minute, and when I looked up, there was a person running across six lanes of traffic from the other side of the interstate. By the time I was finished thinking, "what the fuck?" he was standing, panting, in front of me.

Him: Do you need help?
Me: Do you have a phone?
Him: I can take you to a phone
Me: That's cool. I'll just stay here and wait for help. Maybe you could call someone for me when you get off the highway?
Him: Come to my truck. My cell's in there.

I knew something was fishy before that, but I was then convinced he was a shady character. I launched myself over the trunk of my car, and mid-slide, he grabbed the collar of my shirt (a button-down) and ripped it open as I fell to the ground. He grabbed me by the neck, and that's where I sort of blacked out. I remember a little: screaming and cursing and flailing around. I remember my fist connecting with his face, and I remember him running back across the interstate, tugging at his pants, which, later I satisfactorily noted: he never got all the way down.

I went my car door, got in, locked all the doors, turned the radio up as loud as I could take it, lit a cigarette (thank the convenience store gods I had some), took a deep breath, and started sobbing. It took about twenty five minutes before I saw a cop car's flashing lights behind me.

I literally fell out of my car as I struggled to unlock and open the door. The tears of joy to see a cop surprised me, but I jumped up, ran to him, and hugged him. When I let go, I realized his hand was on his gun. He easily could have shot me or something.

I don't remember much after that. They had my car towed and I went to the station with the cops, where my mom met me with a shirt and a shoulder. They took a statement, and the next day I did a composite while the dude was literally locked in a cell downstairs. Turns out, he had managed to abduct another chick who had the good sense to cut and run from his truck at a red light, and she had picked up his license plate number.

So, the creepy bushes guy does happen, however, I was in a relationship in my very early twenties in which I got beat up and sexually assaulted regularly. In my opinion, those are the types of rapes we can prevent with education. Creepy bushes dude is just that: creepy; and that probably won't change.

[Zazzy]

When I was in sex ed it was discussed and a few times they'd had speakers in to talk it as well. I'll never forget because the women told us that if you have sex with someone who is drunk its rape ( that I disagree with).

There are gradations of drunk, and drunk women are usually picked up by drunk men. When you are drunk, you are less able to judge situations realistically. The reason so many drunk encounters end in "he said/she said" sexual assault cases is that an impaired man is unlikely to be a good judge of whether or not a woman is impaired.

I dated a guy once who literally watched me vomit my guts out from drinking too much and then STILL wanted to have sex immediately after. He wasn't a rapist or an asshole, and I was still clear enough to tell him "no" and he accepted that, but that's some pretty poor judgment. If I had passed out, I don't think he would have taken advantage of that, but with his judgment that fucked up, who knows? That's how good guys get in bad situations.

The drunk hookup culture causes problems for sure.

[Lemonvariable72]

When I was in sex ed it was discussed and a few times they'd had speakers in to talk it as well. I'll never forget because the women told us that if you have sex with someone who is drunk its rape ( that I disagree with).

There are gradations of drunk, and drunk women are usually picked up by drunk men. When you are drunk, you are less able to judge situations realistically. The reason so many drunk encounters end in "he said/she said" sexual assault cases is that an impaired man is unlikely to be a good judge of whether or not a woman is impaired.

I dated a guy once who literally watched me vomit my guts out from drinking too much and then STILL wanted to have sex immediately after. He wasn't a rapist or an asshole, and I was still clear enough to tell him "no" and he accepted that, but that's some pretty poor judgment. If I had passed out, I don't think he would have taken advantage of that, but with his judgment that fucked up, who knows? That's how good guys get in bad situations.

The drunk hookup culture causes problems for sure.

Oh it Does for sure, many a baby are born that way. However this woman basically told us if you had too many to drive you have had too many to give consent to sex