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RE: Christians - Should it be legal to own slaves since God approves?
January 30, 2014 at 1:55 pm
(January 30, 2014 at 1:50 pm)truthBtold Wrote: (January 30, 2014 at 1:04 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Yeah, BRING THE RAGE! 
I'm interested. Do you believe in an objective moral standard which exists independent of environment? Or is morality a contextual, relativistic thing to you.
Not objective but subjective morality
Thank you. Subjective as in
"based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions."
So for example, if I felt anal sex was immoral, and you felt it wasn't, would it have a determinate nature as one or the other? Could it be said to be immoral?
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: Christians - Should it be legal to own slaves since God approves?
January 30, 2014 at 1:57 pm
(January 30, 2014 at 12:59 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Yeah - and you got your head handed to you. Like always.
Drippy never had a head, at least not in the sense of a body part with a brain in it, so you couldn't have handed it to him.
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RE: Christians - Should it be legal to own slaves since God approves?
January 30, 2014 at 2:07 pm
(January 30, 2014 at 1:55 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: (January 30, 2014 at 1:50 pm)truthBtold Wrote: Not objective but subjective morality
Thank you. Subjective as in
"based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions."
So for example, if I felt anal sex was immoral, and you felt it wasn't, would it have a determinate nature as one or the other? Could it be said to be immoral?
Yes.
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RE: Christians - Should it be legal to own slaves since God approves?
January 30, 2014 at 2:11 pm
In a society with moral clarity, I really don't see a problem with slavery.
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RE: Christians - Should it be legal to own slaves since God approves?
January 30, 2014 at 2:24 pm
(January 30, 2014 at 2:11 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: In a society with moral clarity, I really don't see a problem with slavery.
So its ok to own another human being?
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RE: Christians - Should it be legal to own slaves since God approves?
January 30, 2014 at 2:29 pm
(January 30, 2014 at 2:07 pm)truthBtold Wrote: (January 30, 2014 at 1:55 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Thank you. Subjective as in
"based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions."
So for example, if I felt anal sex was immoral, and you felt it wasn't, would it have a determinate nature as one or the other? Could it be said to be immoral?
Yes.
Indeed.
Do you think anal sex is immoral?
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: Christians - Should it be legal to own slaves since God approves?
January 30, 2014 at 2:36 pm
(January 30, 2014 at 2:24 pm)truthBtold Wrote: (January 30, 2014 at 2:11 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: In a society with moral clarity, I really don't see a problem with slavery.
So its ok to own another human being?
I live in America. We're already owned. 
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RE: Christians - Should it be legal to own slaves since God approves?
January 30, 2014 at 2:38 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2014 at 2:39 pm by Simon Moon.)
(January 30, 2014 at 1:55 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: (January 30, 2014 at 1:50 pm)truthBtold Wrote: Not objective but subjective morality
Thank you. Subjective as in
"based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions."
Morality concerns the well being of sentient beings. In this sense, it is objective.
It is objectively demonstrable that: life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, comfort is preferable to pain, freedom is preferable to slavery.
Decisions and actions should be made that are most likely to allow for the maximum well being of sentient beings, and/or avoid harming the well being of sentient beings.
Every situation can be evaluated individually to determine the best actions to take to fit the above criteria.
[quote]So for example, if I felt anal sex was immoral, and you felt it wasn't, would it have a determinate nature as one or the other? Could it be said to be immoral?
Here's another example.
Theft is almost universally considered immoral. But if there are starving people and the only way to feed them was by stealing food, would it be moral to steal the food?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Christians - Should it be legal to own slaves since God approves?
January 30, 2014 at 2:44 pm
Quote:It is objectively demonstrable that: life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, comfort is preferable to pain, freedom is preferable to slavery.
Really? 
I'll take issue with you here, but not just now. I'd like to explore the OP with TBT.
Suffice to say, some people make the right decision to end their lives, some people enjoy their disease (annoyingly ) and some people quite like pain (ask a marathon runner). As to freedom, well then we're into semantics.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: Christians - Should it be legal to own slaves since God approves?
January 30, 2014 at 2:59 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2014 at 3:07 pm by Simon Moon.)
(January 30, 2014 at 2:44 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Quote:It is objectively demonstrable that: life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, comfort is preferable to pain, freedom is preferable to slavery.
Really?
I'll take issue with you here, but not just now. I'd like to explore the OP with TBT.
Suffice to say, some people make the right decision to end their lives, some people enjoy their disease (annoyingly ) and some people quite like pain (ask a marathon runner). As to freedom, well then we're into semantics.
Oh, sorry that I did not include the phrase, 'in most cases'.
Yes, people with deteriorating diseases might be better off ending their lives, Yes, people purposely put themselves through pain for physical activities (sports). Yes, some people get off on enjoying their disease.
In all your examples, they are making the decision for themselves.
Running marathons despite the pain, not immoral. Being forced by others to run marathons against one's will, immoral. Clear enough?
Quote:As to freedom, well then we're into semantics.
Was slavery, as described and condoned by Yahwaeh in the Bible, moral or immoral?
Did the slaves in the Bible stories 'semantically' loose their freedom?
Was it moral or immoral for Jesus to tell slaves to obey theor masters, even the cruel ones? As in 1Peter 2:18.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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