Why are other civilizations ignored in the Bible?

[max-greece]

The Bible never states this and even if it did, you fail to take into account that God has never ceased revealing Himself to them that seek Him.

That is why according to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, in 2010 there were 2.18 billion Christians around the world, nearly a third of the global population.

So much for Him only revealing Himself to one group of people!

Nice manipulation of the numbers there.

Accepting your number of 2.18 billion Christians it should be noted that these are divided up amongst 41,000 denominations - most of whom claim to be the one true path. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chr...ominations)

If these are the people that God has communicated his message to - how has it gone so badly wrong? Why has the almighty. all-knowing God made such a mess of his communications?

At the same time - how reliable is that figure of 2.18 billion? Who keeps the records? Who updates them? If a Catholic becomes an atheist does the church reduce their number by 1?

I'm guessing its on birth records - in which case we have very little idea of how many of those adherents stick with their faith.

I'd also how question how much double counting goes on. Mr. Smith is born a Catholic, changes to Lutheran, marries and then changes again to JW. What is the betting there are 3 Mr. Smiths listed?

[KichigaiNeko]

Not unliken to iSlam

[discipulus]

I would say look no further than Jesus of Nazareth for your evidence.

I can't find any one of that name or description in HISTORY. I don't give a shit about your bible.

Really? That is weird.... I can. Nor do I have to read the Bible to do so.

Be that as it may....

Do you know who Tiberius Caesar was?

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The Bible never states this and even if it did, you fail to take into account that God has never ceased revealing Himself to them that seek Him.

That is why according to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, in 2010 there were 2.18 billion Christians around the world, nearly a third of the global population.

So much for Him only revealing Himself to one group of people!

Nice manipulation of the numbers there.

Accepting your number of 2.18 billion Christians it should be noted that these are divided up amongst 41,000 denominations - most of whom claim to be the one true path. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chr...ominations)

If these are the people that God has communicated his message to - how has it gone so badly wrong? Why has the almighty. all-knowing God made such a mess of his communications?

At the same time - how reliable is that figure of 2.18 billion? Who keeps the records? Who updates them? If a Catholic becomes an atheist does the church reduce their number by 1?

I'm guessing its on birth records - in which case we have very little idea of how many of those adherents stick with their faith.

I'd also how question how much double counting goes on. Mr. Smith is born a Catholic, changes to Lutheran, marries and then changes again to JW. What is the betting there are 3 Mr. Smiths listed?

Gone so badly wrong? Stating that there are denominations within Christianity is one thing, to which I would agree, and then using that as an argument that things have "gone so badly wrong" is another. That is a non-sequitur logical fallacy.

With regards to your misgivings about the survey, you will have to contact those who conducted the survey and speak with them.

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Any passage that says that people have an innate knowledge of god was either talking about the belief in gods in just about every culture, or was just flat out lying. It's pretty easy to tell it's not true by going around to places that haven't heard of christianity and ask them if they believe in someone who matches Yahweh's description.

Also if you're going to study Jesus' presumed life in the bible, you might as well look at the other figures that led similar lives in other mythologies. Pick which one suits your fancy best.

How many people have you spoken with that have never heard of Christianity?

There is information regarding the historical Jesus of Nazareth that I can glean from other resources outside of the Bible. Many of these extra-biblical resources are even secular in nature.

[Esquilax]

Really? That is weird.... I can. Nor do I have to read the Bible to do so.

None of them overlap with Jesus' life, though.

[discipulus]

No worries!

Who knows, one day, you may renounce your atheism and come back to the fold as the prodigal son returned to his father after he came to his senses.

I hope not. Developing dementia when I get older is one of my greatest fears.

You hope not and yet you persistently ask for evidence for Christianity. This seems odd to me.

You hope not......

Kind of reminds me of some things other atheists have said regarding their atheism. Thomas Nagel and Aldous Huxley come to mind.

The idea of hoping God does not exist, not wanting God to exist, finding reasons to not believe in God all speak of an issue that is not an intellectual one, but rather an emotional one.

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Really? That is weird.... I can. Nor do I have to read the Bible to do so.

None of them overlap with Jesus' life, though.

I miss your point. Maybe you can elaborate?

[max-greece]

Gone so badly wrong? Stating that there are denominations within Christianity is one thing, to which I would agree, and then using that as an argument that things have "gone so badly wrong" is another. That is a non-sequitur logical fallacy.

Really?

Can they all be right? If they are all right - then they are all wrong in that each one claims to be the one true path and that all others are wrong.

There is a logical fallacy - but it ain't mine.

If one is right and the rest are wrong what else could it be but bad communications from God?

Quick story:

On a visit to Israel with the wife. We are at the supposed place of Jesus death. 3 churches are at war over the site. Wife is Greek Orthodox and wants to light a candle. The Greek orthodox shop is closed. We go to the open Coptic church shop. The monk, when he discovers that we want to put a candle in the Greek Orthodox part refuses to sell us one.

That is a personal experience of the mildest (but most entertaining for me) form.

I could talk about the "troubles" in Northern Ireland, Henry the 8th and his FED DEI title - awarded by the then Pope for his war on the Huguenots - obviously before he declared himself the head of the English, Protestant Church.

The council of worms. The schism between the Greek Orthodox Church and the Church of Rome. Endless wars and battles for supremacy between different sects.

[Esquilax]

I miss your point. Maybe you can elaborate?

Well, guys from history writing about another guy who they could not possibly have met because he died before they were born isn't exactly compelling evidence for the existence of that guy, is it? People today are doing that about Christ; just the fact that it happened slightly closer to his time of life doesn't change the fact that it didn't get written while he was alive.

[Jacob(smooth)]

One of the problems I have with the bible is the "dog that barked in the night" thing.

For eg, Matthew 27:52-53. Now I know that this was before twitter, but you'd think that if a significant number of people came back from the dead and started walking about, and indeed were "seen by many" it would get at least a mention in contemporary records. The Romans were an organised bunch, the expected dead people to stay dead. Failure to do so may have reasonably be expected to cause comment.

In other news, It must have made for some awkward "honey I'm home" conversations.

[pocaracas]

One of the problems I have with the bible is the "dog that barked in the night" thing.

For eg, Matthew 27:52-53. Now I know that this was before twitter, but you'd think that if a significant number of people came back from the dead and started walking about, and indeed were "seen by many" it would get at least a mention in contemporary records. The Romans were an organised bunch, the expected dead people to stay dead. Failure to do so may have reasonably be expected to cause comment.

In other news, It must have made for some awkward "honey I'm home" conversations.

I'm guessing the local population took care of it "old style" and never bothered to call in the romans...

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After all, "what have the romans ever done for us?"

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE

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[discipulus]

Gone so badly wrong? Stating that there are denominations within Christianity is one thing, to which I would agree, and then using that as an argument that things have "gone so badly wrong" is another. That is a non-sequitur logical fallacy.

Really?

Can they all be right? If they are all right - then they are all wrong in that each one claims to be the one true path and that all others are wrong.

There is a logical fallacy - but it ain't mine.

If one is right and the rest are wrong what else could it be but bad communications from God?

Quick story:

On a visit to Israel with the wife. We are at the supposed place of Jesus death. 3 churches are at war over the site. Wife is Greek Orthodox and wants to light a candle. The Greek orthodox shop is closed. We go to the open Coptic church shop. The monk, when he discovers that we want to put a candle in the Greek Orthodox part refuses to sell us one.

That is a personal experience of the mildest (but most entertaining for me) form.

I could talk about the "troubles" in Northern Ireland, Henry the 8th and his FED DEI title - awarded by the then Pope for his war on the Huguenots - obviously before he declared himself the head of the English, Protestant Church.

The council of worms. The schism between the Greek Orthodox Church and the Church of Rome. Endless wars and battles for supremacy between different sects.

Where two or more Christian denominations differ in their truth claims to the point that the claims are contradictory, it is evident that they cannot all be true. There is no debating this.

However to take this and then say that this necessarily means that God has messed up in communicating His will to His people is simply fallacious. The conclusion does not follow from the presmises and therefore is a logical fallacy of the non-sequitur type.

I do sympathize with you regarding the undeniable fact that within Christianity there are divisions. Those Christians who have failed to love one another and who have been the cause of division within the church due to selfish and self centered motives will be judged by Christ for not doing what they know is right.

It does not follow from this that God is to blame. Blame the men and women who desire to be called Christians but do not obey Christ's teachings.