Christians, what is your VERY BEST arguments for the existence of God?

[Autumnlicious]

Indeed. Sometimes Poisson d'avril doesn't seem to click with certain people.

Google is your friend.

[divermike]

why in this day and age is the fact of human existence, the reality of conciousness, not counted as any kind of evidence of God, the very fact we exist surly is proof of creation. just because some miserably morbid twat wont take things at face value, and just keeps on babbling shit about carbon half lifes, doesnt mean people with faith should loose hope, fuck no it means they are even proved right by scripture as well as belief.

[Autumnlicious]

why in this day and age is the fact of human existence, the reality of conciousness, not counted as any kind of evidence of God, the very fact we exist surly is proof of creation. just because some miserably morbid twat wont take things at face value, and just keeps on babbling shit about carbon half lifes, doesnt mean people with faith should loose hope, fuck no it means they are even proved right by scripture as well as belief.

An open mind is like a fortress, its gates unbarred...

[tavarish]

why in this day and age is the fact of human existence, the reality of conciousness, not counted as any kind of evidence of God, the very fact we exist surly is proof of creation. just because some miserably morbid twat wont take things at face value, and just keeps on babbling shit about carbon half lifes, doesnt mean people with faith should loose hope, fuck no it means they are even proved right by scripture as well as belief.

Yup, trees exist, therefore a Christian God exists. IT'S LOGIC, PEOPLE!


HELLLOOOO????!!!!!

[The_Flying_Skeptic]

why in this day and age is the fact of human existence, the reality of conciousness, not counted as any kind of evidence of God, the very fact we exist surly is proof of creation. just because some miserably morbid twat wont take things at face value, and just keeps on babbling shit about carbon half lifes, doesnt mean people with faith should loose hope, fuck no it means they are even proved right by scripture as well as belief.

Yup, trees exist, therefore a Christian God exists. IT'S LOGIC, PEOPLE!


HELLLOOOO????!!!!!

no no... you're totally 'backasswards' God created trees so we humans can haz oxygen chemicals.

[Pippy]

I can haz oxygen chemicals?

I'm in your reality, osmosing all on your good sheets.

[Autumnlicious]

I can haz oxygen chemicals?

I'm in your reality, osmosing all on your good sheets.

I see you are fishing for a... reaction?

[roundsquare]

two of the best arguments for GODs existence in my opinion is the kalam cosmological argument, hereafter abbreviated as kca, and the arguments from design, teleological argument. the kca is simple beautiful argument that states: 1. everything that begins to exist has a cause outside itself. 2.the universe began to exist. hence it is deduced that the universe has a cause. the first premise is readily observable in everyday life. this universally observed principle undergirds scientific endeavor, if things can be expected to happen uncaused then science becomes meaningless which is a deligent search for causes. the second premise is scientifically upheld aswell as well as philosophically. the vast majority of cosmologist cannot ignore the evidence for the big bang theory, such as the red shift, and background radiation. on the philosophical front an eternal universe is impossible, because an actual infinity cant be realized ontologically. for example in an infinite universe we would expect there to be an infinite number of events to exist before the present moment, meaning that the present would never be realized in a beginningless universe so to speak, it is not possible to traverse an infinite set of events. 2. design in nature shouts out. creator! paley put it nicely with his pocket watch analogy, that if you were to stumble upon a watch in the middle of nowhere your first thought wont be, hey look at what the forces of nature put together, you will rather assume designer. this is because nature has never been observed to assemble such ordered complexity, as for natural selection, it isnt even a force of nature, and it doesnt create complexity, it only explains why nature chooses so to speak one kind of already existing complex feature over another.

---

since space-time, and matter/energy began to exist as scientist maintain, the cause of these phenomena has to be non-spatial, what christians would refer to as a spirit, timeless, in other words eternal, it has to be powerful to bring about something as vast and intricate as the universe, the design in nature tells us that it has to be intelligent aswell.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

after the interruption of a spammer we'll continue

I think "troll" maybe more appropriate. Irritating ain't it.

[tavarish]

two of the best arguments for GODs existence in my opinion is the kalam cosmological argument, hereafter abbreviated as kca, and the arguments from design, teleological argument. the kca is simple beautiful argument that states: 1. everything that begins to exist has a cause outside itself. 2.the universe began to exist. hence it is deduced that the universe has a cause. the first premise is readily observable in everyday life. this universally observed principle undergirds scientific endeavor, if things can be expected to happen uncaused then science becomes meaningless which is a deligent search for causes.

Wrong. Quantum events happen without cause, and there hasn't been any evidence to assert that the laws of cause and effect existed "prior" to the Big Bang.

the second premise is scientifically upheld aswell as well as philosophically. the vast majority of cosmologist cannot ignore the evidence for the big bang theory, such as the red shift, and background radiation. on the philosophical front an eternal universe is impossible, because an actual infinity cant be realized ontologically.

So the fact that it can't be realized makes it a reality?

for example in an infinite universe we would expect there to be an infinite number of events to exist before the present moment, meaning that the present would never be realized in a beginningless universe so to speak, it is not possible to traverse an infinite set of events.

Again, this is assuming that the laws of cause and effect were always in place, and there hasn't been any evidence to suggest they were. This is a huge hurdle.

Not to mention this argument fails to demonstrate how there must be a God as a first cause, and more specifically, which God. There must be an explanation of his specific qualities and natures, because saying "everything has a cause, therefore there is a God" is like saying "Everything is made of matter, therefore there is a unicorn". It's a non-sequitur and a giant assuming leap.

2. design in nature shouts out. creator! paley put it nicely with his pocket watch analogy, that if you were to stumble upon a watch in the middle of nowhere your first thought wont be, hey look at what the forces of nature put together, you will rather assume designer. this is because nature has never been observed to assemble such ordered complexity, as for natural selection, it isnt even a force of nature, and it doesnt create complexity, it only explains why nature chooses so to speak one kind of already existing complex feature over another.

That doesn't make sense. You're arguing that complexity is the product of design, but your watchmaker analogy outlines exactly how you'd distinguish between something designed and something natural. First, the watch is not a reproducing or self-replicating element. It serves a singular and primary purpose and it is built fairly efficiently. It cannot change.

Living things in nature, however, do change. The process of self-replicating DNA does not do so perfectly, and thus causes variation in populations over time. The ones that are advantageous in their environment survive and procreate more than the ones who aren't. After a certain amount of time has passed, the genetic material is so varied that the lifeform can no longer procreate with its ancestor. This is called speciation. I digress.

I'll give you an example of complexity that occurs naturally.

You see driftwood that washed up on shore on a beach. By all measures, it is a complex structure. Not only that, it acts as a wall to shield its inhabitants (microorganisms, sentient lifeforms) from the elements. In addition, it serves as a habitat and ecosystem for the lifeforms living within it. Why did this need a designer if it was, by all observable measure, made by natural occurrences?

Ordered complexity is also something that happens naturally, but the process is slow, and horribly inefficient (if you view it as having a specific goal). Take the ordered complexity of genetic code - we have good reason to accept that all genetic code derived from a single source. Humans have similarities in genetic code with squirrels, birds and oak trees. It's an ever-evolving facet of life, and remarkably self-regulating.

The argument that "trees exist - therefore God exists" has the same folly as the last argument, not to mention relies completely on personal incredulity - "I can't think of any other way this could have happened, so it must have been God".

since space-time, and matter/energy began to exist as scientist maintain, the cause of these phenomena has to be non-spatial, what christians would refer to as a spirit, timeless, in other words eternal, it has to be powerful to bring about something as vast and intricate as the universe, the design in nature tells us that it has to be intelligent aswell.

First, please present evidence for a spirit's existence and ability to change reality.
Second, you're essentially answering the question with something that is more complex than the sum of its parts, which doesn't make any sense. If I said "What created that tree was a large computer that is not only invisible, but calculates everything in the universe and makes it happen, but it is untraceable". Would that be a reasonable response?