What's your crazy ideas about the existence of the universe?

[Angrboda]

I just can't wrap my head around it, the universe going through this cycle without cause or a "creator" (alien lets say).

Maybe as sentient shit we just can't help ourselves from looking for intention even in pre-sentient shit. But that too is probably just a bunch of shit.

I have this hunch that the brain's template for cause and effect is modeled on physical motion, Newton's laws, and billiard ball smacking billiard ball styles of intuition. I suspect that other forms of causation are just abstractions of this fundamental template, such that we only "intuit" cause and effect where we can imagine one thing, in proximity to another, imparting some sort of "force" from one thing to the other. This is why things like the wave-particle duality and quantum entanglement are so counter-intuitive — they don't match up with our brain's "physical" interpretation of cause and effect. I suspect something similar is going on with ultimate questions about the origin of the universe — answers as to cause and effect of the universe don't fit our "physical cause" template, so we have no intuitions about it. It's much like Bruno's question about "what's beyond the edge of the universe, and why isn't that then the edge?" Universe's don't fit into a physical cause / effect template, or any abstraction of it, so we just have no intuitions about it that aren't just wrong-headed analogies from physical objects and space. We can calculate what a 4 dimensional object would be, and what an electron that is a wave would be, but we simply don't have templates for 4 dimensions, nor for particles that are waves.

"The wild geese do not intend to cast their reflection, and the water has no mind to retain their image."

That's a beautiful image. Imma steal it!

[Lek]

That's why I say that relying only on science to prove or disprove things puts you in a box. If 100,000 people told you that the way they found God was to open themselves up to him and seek him, would you be interested in trying or would you say "I can't prove that by science, so it's just not true"?

You can prove that with science: gather believers from every religion including some offbeat or defunct ones, and add an equal number of atheists, agnostics, deists and so on. Have them all "open themselves up and seek" god, according to any method you would like, and see just how many find, and more importantly, what they find.

My prediction is that all the christians will find precisely their denomination of christian god, all the hindus will find their particular god, all the jews would find their god, all the muslims will find their god, all the worshippers of Bast will find Bast. The atheists won't find anything, and in a sterile environment without outside influences from others, the agnostics won't either, and those are the ones most open to the kind of thing you're suggesting.

See, that's the problem: you propose something that is testable, but you dismiss the very idea of actually testing it because I think you know it won't produce the results you're looking for.

The situation you propose wouldn't be a good test because you would have no way of knowing if your subjects were really opening themselves up or just pretending; or thinking they are. Opening yourself up means you're really meaning to accept what you find, which most people are not. Seeking God means seeking his will also. Concerning the comment about each religion finding it's own version of God, that's probably true to a great extent. Don't get me wrong. I believe salvation comes through Jesus Christ, but I believe that truth is found in varying degrees in most religions. If a person is raised as a muslim say, and that's all he knows, I believe if he truly follows the light that God has provided he will be saved through Christ's sacrifice. I have to be very careful here because I don't believe that all religions are equal paths to God. I just believe that all people are not equally exposed to the truth and are not held responsible for the knowledge they never had the opportunity to learn, but they do know God, because they truly will to know him.

[Zen Badger]

You can prove that with science: gather believers from every religion including some offbeat or defunct ones, and add an equal number of atheists, agnostics, deists and so on. Have them all "open themselves up and seek" god, according to any method you would like, and see just how many find, and more importantly, what they find.

My prediction is that all the christians will find precisely their denomination of christian god, all the hindus will find their particular god, all the jews would find their god, all the muslims will find their god, all the worshippers of Bast will find Bast. The atheists won't find anything, and in a sterile environment without outside influences from others, the agnostics won't either, and those are the ones most open to the kind of thing you're suggesting.

See, that's the problem: you propose something that is testable, but you dismiss the very idea of actually testing it because I think you know it won't produce the results you're looking for.

The situation you propose wouldn't be a good test because you would have no way of knowing if your subjects were really opening themselves up or just pretending; or thinking they are. Opening yourself up means you're really meaning to accept what you find, which most people are not. Seeking God means seeking his will also. Concerning the comment about each religion finding it's own version of God, that's probably true to a great extent. Don't get me wrong. I believe salvation comes through Jesus Christ, but I believe that truth is found in varying degrees in most religions. If a person is raised as a muslim say, and that's all he knows, I believe if he truly follows the light that God has provided he will be saved through Christ's sacrifice. I have to be very careful here because I don't believe that all religions are equal paths to God. I just believe that all people are not equally exposed to the truth and are not held responsible for the knowledge they never had the opportunity to learn, but they do know God, because they truly will to know him.

Aren't you lucky you found the right path to god then........

[Vegamo]

You can prove that with science: gather believers from every religion including some offbeat or defunct ones, and add an equal number of atheists, agnostics, deists and so on. Have them all "open themselves up and seek" god, according to any method you would like, and see just how many find, and more importantly, what they find.

My prediction is that all the christians will find precisely their denomination of christian god, all the hindus will find their particular god, all the jews would find their god, all the muslims will find their god, all the worshippers of Bast will find Bast. The atheists won't find anything, and in a sterile environment without outside influences from others, the agnostics won't either, and those are the ones most open to the kind of thing you're suggesting.

See, that's the problem: you propose something that is testable, but you dismiss the very idea of actually testing it because I think you know it won't produce the results you're looking for.

The situation you propose wouldn't be a good test because you would have no way of knowing if your subjects were really opening themselves up or just pretending; or thinking they are. Opening yourself up means you're really meaning to accept what you find, which most people are not. Seeking God means seeking his will also. Concerning the comment about each religion finding it's own version of God, that's probably true to a great extent. Don't get me wrong. I believe salvation comes through Jesus Christ, but I believe that truth is found in varying degrees in most religions. If a person is raised as a muslim say, and that's all he knows, I believe if he truly follows the light that God has provided he will be saved through Christ's sacrifice. I have to be very careful here because I don't believe that all religions are equal paths to God. I just believe that all people are not equally exposed to the truth and are not held responsible for the knowledge they never had the opportunity to learn, but they do know God, because they truly will to know him.

Again, human understanding of god is flawed and man made.

I do not believe in the existence of God neither do I believe anything who created us would give a shit if we believe or not believe.

I have nothing against someone believing in the possibility of a creator to this universe however it cannot include faith, rules, sin, will, fate and any stupid idea of "god" connecting with humans.

My idea suggests that science was able to debunk god and prove the big bang and evolution, question is was this cycle always there or was there something that caused it.

[Minimalist]

That quirk doesn't make me stupid. (Not implying that you thought so)

I am aware of the singularity and the cycle, my issue is accepting that nothing caused or "set up" the cycle.

Just because all we see is the universe doesn't mean nothing exists outside this tunnel.

You guys aren't thinking out side the multiverse theory and how we haven't seen the edges of space (we think there isn't any edges and it's infinite) but why are we so sure as atheists that no alien or outside world had any thing to do with this universe.
Do not confuse my questions with God, I am an atheist who thinks there's more to our universe than what we think we know.

I guess it suggests we were created, but im trying to dig deeper than that.

Something is outside all of this, no way to tell me this is everything because that's the way it's always been. Am I making any sense?

Is this it? That's all of everything ? It's always been there? No beginning or end? How are we sure of this? If a creator exists did they create this multiverse sandbox engine that can have gazzillions of possibilities? Am I a theist if I think this way?

“To the dumb question "Why me?" the cosmos barely bothers to return the reply: why not?”
― Christopher Hitchens

Humanity always seeks a "purpose" or "reason." Some, like Lek, invent gods to dictate that purpose for them. I attribute that more to lazy as opposed to stupid. I do agree with him that you can drive yourself nuts worrying about it. In the end, as Hitchens noted, "why not?"

[Raptor Jesus]

I believe, because "God" hates foreskins so much, and we are made in "God's" image, that at one point "God" had to have a foreskin.

But because "God" hates foreskins, and wants them removed, at some point "God" cut off and removed his foreskin. At that moment "God" became perfect, thus the universe became perfect, thus the universe was created.

In other words the universe was created at the moment "God" cut off his foreskin. There for, the universe is actually "God's" foreskin. And as we are part of the universe, we are all simply a part of "God's" foreskin.

Mystery solved.

[ManMachine]

Modern science has done a good job by showing us how we play a very very tiny role in this massive universe.



I am a firm believer in the Big Bang, evolution, and natural selection. My issue with everything is that I continue to think there is a purpose for this matrix we are in. This isn't about some bored God wanting to be worshiped or idolized.



If someone was able to shrink you to the size of a neutrino (While keeping you alive), what would you see?

Would your surroundings look as massive as the universe is to us?

I look at the universe as an operating system (With laws) that plays as a sand box for many different possibilities of galaxies, stars, planets, and forms of life.

I am very open to the mystery of our universe except nothing to do with "God" or the "Creator" at all, what crazy ideas have you thought of lately?

What of we are an alien lab project under a telescope and what if our universe is tiny outside the universe?

I think, therefore I am an entity capable of convincing myself I can think. That's as far as I ever got.

MM

[Whateverist]

"The wild geese do not intend to cast their reflection, and the water has no mind to retain their image."

That's a beautiful image. Imma steal it!

I would've guessed I'd stole it from you first. Some zen saying isn't it?

I just can't wrap my head around it, the universe going through this cycle without cause or a "creator" (alien lets say).

Maybe as sentient shit we just can't help ourselves from looking for intention even in pre-sentient shit. But that too is probably just a bunch of shit.

I have this hunch that the brain's template for cause and effect is modeled on physical motion, Newton's laws, and billiard ball smacking billiard ball styles of intuition. I suspect that other forms of causation are just abstractions of this fundamental template, such that we only "intuit" cause and effect where we can imagine one thing, in proximity to another, imparting some sort of "force" from one thing to the other.

That could well be. We'd certainly have reason to develop the ability to intuit vectors.

[KUSA]

I believe, because "God" hates foreskins so much, and we are made in "God's" image, that at one point "God" had to have a foreskin.

But because "God" hates foreskins, and wants them removed, at some point "God" cut off and removed his foreskin. At that moment "God" became perfect, thus the universe became perfect, thus the universe was created.

In other words the universe was created at the moment "God" cut off his foreskin. There for, the universe is actually "God's" foreskin. And as we are part of the universe, we are all simply a part of "God's" foreskin.

Mystery solved.

So God hates foreskin and we are in fact his discarded foreskin so therfore God hates us. That makes sense considering all the brutal things he has done to us.

Oh well I'll just keep trying to wash the smegma off.

[Raptor Jesus]

I believe, because "God" hates foreskins so much, and we are made in "God's" image, that at one point "God" had to have a foreskin.

But because "God" hates foreskins, and wants them removed, at some point "God" cut off and removed his foreskin. At that moment "God" became perfect, thus the universe became perfect, thus the universe was created.

In other words the universe was created at the moment "God" cut off his foreskin. There for, the universe is actually "God's" foreskin. And as we are part of the universe, we are all simply a part of "God's" foreskin.

Mystery solved.

So God hates foreskin and we are in fact his discarded foreskin so therfore God hates us. That makes sense considering all the brutal things he has done to us.

Oh well I'll just keep trying to wash the smegma off.

Yes. That is the nature of reality, and why we all exist. We are all simply "God's" dirty, discarded, hated, foreskin.

That is why we are born sick and commanded to be well. We are all a disregarded, filthy piece of "God's" penis.