God: No magic required

[Whateverist]

There is no question that people's beliefs can give them comfort, courage, etc. But just because someone has a belief that helps them, does not mean that the subject of their belief actually exists.

Correlation does not equal causation.

I'll bet belief in dragons would actually out perform belief in gods. I may franchise this shit.

[max-greece]

Hello Larry - welcome back.

Just a few things:

Once you move out 10^10^29 meters from earth, you have every conceivable arrangement of atoms, both qualitatively and in terms of geometry. Beyond that point, you begin to duplicate things. Once you've doubled this distance, you've got an exact duplicate of everything that ever existed, including you and me. Explanation defies concise summary; if interested start with the above link and move on from there (additional links are on my website, which I'm not permitted to cite on this forum, as it is considered to be "advertising").

Actually you have every possible arrangement of atoms - not every conceivable arrangement. These are not synonymous. Fire breathing dragons may be conceivable but not actually possible for all we know.

The point is, that, in an infinite universe, you will inevitably have super-sentient Boltzmann brains, comprised of both ordinary and dark matter and ordinary and dark energy. It is a mathematical certainty. In infinite parallel universes, you will inevitably have exotic forms of energy, in infinite configurations, also producing Boltzmann brains with powers and capabilities unimaginable on a human scale. This is also a mathematical certainty.

Well we need to be careful with infinity. Theoretically there could be any number of super-intelligences that may be in direct, or indirect, communication with everything in their universe - but in others? That we do not know.

The thing is that if there are universes with God then there are universes without one. As God is no longer the required creator God I'm not sure he(?) is even God anymore. It might be we've just disproved the creator God hypothesis.

I and literally billions of other people regularly talk to God. In my own case, I needed physical science plausibility to make the sincere effort which is required. Most other people simply need simple faith to make the effort. It works -- unquestionably works.

In your infinite series of universes it is not impossible for a universe to exist where there is no God (or not one in contact, possible for reasons of choice) where there are also sentient beings that think they are communicating with him, gaining benefit but are actually talking to themselves.

I personally think that militant denial of God has now become simply another form of neo-luddism.

I am yet to meet anyone who militantly denies the possibility of God. I have met many people who, for lack of evidence, conclude the probability to be low, possibly very, very low.

[Minimalist]

So low as to be undetectable!

[Rampant.A.I.]

Argument ad obscurum.

I have SPOOKY supernatural KNOWLEDGE that DEFIES your mere LOGIC and TRANSCENDS your pitiful COMPREHENSION!

http://youtu.be/5kXiVSYmC0g

[houseofcantor]

A couple of weeks ago, that which has been termed one of the most important discoveries in the history of science was announced.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/gues...-now-what/

Written my Max Tegmark, who basically believes that the universe is just a bunch of math.

I now view the existence of God as not only a far out speculative possibility but as a physical science certainty.

Platonist.

Back in the day, your fellow theists would've had Roasted Larry on a Stick for making such a correlation.

I personally think that militant denial of God has now become simply another form of neo-luddism.

Because there's so many advocates for god pushing for technological advancement?

To me, these results are akin to natural selection, where various memes compete for survival. The only Agency brought to the table is carried in the mind of the observer; ego reflected in the maths rather than the maths themselves.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Actually, almost by definition, magic is required.

I personally think that militant denial of God has now become simply another form of neo-luddism.

It's impossible to deny something you have no concept of. What's a god anyway?

[Angrboda]

Many questions should get cleared up already in October, when the Planck satellite experiment is due to release its first polarized images of the cosmic plasma. ... My personal guess is that they’ll find these stars to have formed later than currently assumed, which (for complex but well-understood reasons) will lower Plank’s estimate of how clumpy our universe is and ... also bring Planck’s predictions for the number of galaxy clusters down into agreement with what we observe.

So even your quoted source isn't sure whether we live in an infinite universe.

[Whateverist]

So low as to be undetectable!

It can't be that high!

[ThomM]

Certitude is poison.

Human consciousness is simply organized bioelectrical energy, contained in a mass of mush the size of a loaf of bread. The universe is mostly dark energy and dark matter. String theory posits 11 dimensions, of which we can perceive only 4. Our own universe may be simply one in a trillion (or infinite) number of universes in the multiverse. Other universes may have different physical laws, with different physical constants, not allowing the formation of matter, but allowing for the formation of exotic forms of energy.

If the bioelectric energy of the human brain can organize itself into consciousness, then how can we be certain that the dark energy of our universe and/or the exotic energy of other universes cannot do so, also? Imagine the power of the energy (dark or otherwise) of an entire universe, organized into sentience. It's staggering.

Why think in this way? Good peer review medical research shows that spiritual and religious people are happier and actually live longer than atheists -- an average of two years longer, which would be the population effect of curing all forms of cancer.

How could prayer work, assuming, just for sake of argument, that a universal sentience (let's call it "God") really does exist? Pretty simple; you've seen the MRI images of the human brain, when it is thinking different types of thoughts. One day, I'm sure that we'll have a machine which can translate MRI (and externally monitored EEG and who knows what other sorts of imaging) signals into language. A sentient dark energy, permeating every atom of the universe, would have no trouble doing far more.

Does "God" answer prayers? The evidence is, of course, inconclusive. God may not grant world peace or even cure medical illnesses (much less help Olympic athletes win medals), but virtually every believer has enough personal evidence to convince said believer that "God" helps in the areas of personal courage, comfort, resilience, conviction, morality, and so on.

Religion, like a 9 mm semi-automatic firearm or an SUV or even an iPad can certainly be misused. But a "good" religion, properly "applied" is an unambiguous blessing to those so blessed. This need have nothing at all to do with the Bible, heaven, hell, Satan, Mary, Muhammed, or Jesus. Religion basically comes down to rejecting smug certitude in favor of personal curiosity and finding, for oneself, whether it's possible to believe in God and to find a way to communicate with God, which is meaningful to the individual in question.

- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

Actually - the evidence that prayers are answered is quite convincing. THERE has never been a true scientific study - using a statistically large enough sample to have validity - and published in a peer reviewed scientific journal - that even implies that prayer has ANY effect beyond that of chance. It makes no difference who or what you pray to - the results are always similar.

AS far as your claim as to how a god helps - again - it seems that these are things that INDIVIDUALS claim - for which they can offer NO direct evidence of. Morals and ethics are nice claims but there is NO evidence that people who believe in spooks are any more moral or ethical - than those who do not.

AS far as those studies of who lives longer - they have an obvious medical problem - they do not ELIMINATE other reasons why first. WHEN you only look at the group as a whole - you fail to consider other reasons why some people live longer than others.

There is ANOTHER problem -

IF you could show that those of ONE religion specifically lived measurably LONGER than people of other religions - when YOU eliminate other factors - that would be something worthwhile. However - no one has done that as well. IF a specific god existed - and all the others were false - then one would expect a MAJOR OBVIOUS difference between the groups - but no such thing exists.

[Thackerie]

...that's entirely libelous, coming from someone who scribbles Internet graffiti anonymously...Unlike you, Rasetsu, I'm a real person, with a real name, a real family, and a real reputation. You are a coward who hides behind a pseudonym ....

To my knowledge you and I are the only members that use our real names. Like you, I stand behind my opinions. At the same time I recognize that some people have legitimate reasons to preserve their privacy. Some just want to act clever and that's okay too. Raetsu's username used to be Apophenia. (We can only speculate about why she felt she needed to change her name.)For some reason, she believes that anyone who disagrees with her must be a liar and intellectually dishonest. That's what happens to immature little cunts who suck Dennett's cock to find out what they think.

So as you can see vulgarity, ridicule and insult are common on this forum, so you might as well get used to it. You'll learn with whom it is worth talking and who belongs on your ignore list.

Too damn funny! This guy is calling people out for "vulgarity, ridicule and insult" with a short little post full of vulgarity, ridicule and insult.

Yeah, I know, I'm responding to a really old post, but I couldn't help but make a note of this. Christian hypocrisy is comedy gold.