Same source etc, but different religions ?

[Tonus]

If "Christ" means "anointed" or "anointed one," then I guess the question would be "when was Jesus anointed?" Because that is when he became the Christ. At what point does he become Christian? Jesus wasn't a follower of the Christ, he was the Christ. When did he establish the actual religion? Was it at that moment when he rose from the water and merged with a spirit pigeon?

If a Christian is a follower of Christ, then would his followers have been Christians the moment that they joined him? The gospels indicate that they didn't quite understand who or what he was at least some of the time, which makes you wonder why they dropped everything and followed him in the first place. So it's difficult to say at which point they went from Jewish to Christian, since I would assume it has to be a conscious choice.

[Lek]

Let me get this straight Jesus, who declared himself to be the awaited messiah, and on whom the christian church is founded was not a christian. And James, the leader of the christian church in Jerusalem, was also not a christian.

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Lek, I'm not going to comment on Word of Gawds posts. But, surely you did know that Jesus was a Jew right? And that he had brothers and at least one sister? hock:

Of course. He was a Jew. The Jewish hierarchy arranged for him to be crucified because he spoke against and ignored the Jewish traditions. At first, even his own family did not believe in him, but later on his brother James became one of the foremost leaders of the early Christian church.

[vodkafan]

Of course. He was a Jew. The Jewish hierarchy arranged for him to be crucified because he spoke against and ignored the Jewish traditions. At first, even his own family did not believe in him, but later on his brother James became one of the foremost leaders of the early Christian church.

But..so then you consider him a Christian? I thought he was supposed to be a part of god . Christians are people who try to be "Christ-like" and accept him as such. At least that's how I understood it?
Also, it was part of god's eternal plan that he was to be sacrificed. That IS the WHOLE CRUX of the religion. It's what he was created for, his purpose. There is no blame attached to Jews. He even instructed Judas to go and tell the Roman snatch team where to find him.
I never understood that blame the church attached to Jews for hundreds of years- they blamed them for killing jesus when it was supposedly his sacrificial purpose to die and take all the sins etc.
Millions of jews have died over the centuries for that prejudice.

[ThomM]

I was wondering why there are three separate religions when the Jews, Christians, and Muslims claimed to receive the revelations from the same source ? They share the same source, same Prophets, same history and story etc, but then it is three separate religions? If we look at the Jews and the Christians, we can say that they read the same Book but then it is two separate religions? Why ?

I believe there is no religion in Judaism, Christianity and Islam because these facts don't make sense to me.

IF - all other previous religions - is the source you are talking about - that is how ALL religions came to be

If you are claiming that Judaism is the source of the Muslim and Xtian faiths - you are actually wrong.

In Xtianity - they have ignored the prophecies of the Messiah - who was to restore the Jewish Faith to the ONLY and completely accepted faith - and tried to claim a New Covenant, The problem with that is - if the god was all knowing - why give an old convenant to begin with - when you knew you were not going to go through with it - so the god LIED according the xtians.

Muslims have really changed the Jewish faith in a way to obliterate it - by accepting that Mohammad - another messenger of god - brought a whole bunch of NEW rules - that have to be obeyed - but still did not represent the messiah of Judaism - because he also failed to fulfill the prophecies. Again - by CHANGING the rules - it appears the god - who was supposedly all knowing - LIED about the first ones.

As far as the FACTS are concerned - all 3 have errors and contradictions with reality in their religious dogma. There is NOTHING factual about any claimed supernatural god of any religion - because none are proven to exist. And the provable human based gods of prior religions all died.

Remember - today - there is a tribe on the Island of Tanna that reveres Prince Philip as a god - and we can prove HE exists too. Now - that depends on your definition of a god!

[Muslim Atheism]

IF - all other previous religions - is the source you are talking about - that is how ALL religions came to be

If you are claiming that Judaism is the source of the Muslim and Xtian faiths - you are actually wrong.

In Xtianity - they have ignored the prophecies of the Messiah - who was to restore the Jewish Faith to the ONLY and completely accepted faith - and tried to claim a New Covenant, The problem with that is - if the god was all knowing - why give an old convenant to begin with - when you knew you were not going to go through with it - so the god LIED according the xtians.

Muslims have really changed the Jewish faith in a way to obliterate it - by accepting that Mohammad - another messenger of god - brought a whole bunch of NEW rules - that have to be obeyed - but still did not represent the messiah of Judaism - because he also failed to fulfill the prophecies. Again - by CHANGING the rules - it appears the god - who was supposedly all knowing - LIED about the first ones.

As far as the FACTS are concerned - all 3 have errors and contradictions with reality in their religious dogma. There is NOTHING factual about any claimed supernatural god of any religion - because none are proven to exist. And the provable human based gods of prior religions all died.

Those issues could be resolved through facts and logic, and it is not the concern of the Quran to dispute on these issues
The Quran only asked the Muslim to concern with "no sectarianism" and "human unity", this is the highest priority

and it is clear that there is no religion in the Quran
the word "religion" (madhab) has never been mentioned even once in the Quran
in facts, Islam came to end the "ideology of religion" and "sectarianism"

Remember - today - there is a tribe on the Island of Tanna that reveres Prince Philip as a god - and we can prove HE exists too. Now - that depends on your definition of a god!

mmm. . . I don't believe in God, and there is no ideology of "God" in the Quran (refer here)

This is just my opinion.

[Mister Agenda]

Christianity and judaism parted ways after Christ came because the jewish establishment wouldn't accept him as the anticipated messiah, but the first christians were jews. Prior to that they share the same history. I not all that familiar with the history of Islam, but I think Muhammad claimed to have direct revelation from God and believed that jews and christians had interpreted events incorrectly. Perhaps one of the muslim members can clarify this.

I think to get at the root of Islam, it helps to understand how divisive different interpretations of the divine status of Jesus were. Christians were slaughtering each other left and right over them. Islam is an attempt to 'solve' the Gordian Knot of what exactly it means to be the Son of God by reducing Jesus to prophet status and declaring God to be Unity instead of Trinity.

[Lek]

But..so then you consider him a Christian? I thought he was supposed to be a part of god . Christians are people who try to be "Christ-like" and accept him as such. At least that's how I understood it?
Also, it was part of god's eternal plan that he was to be sacrificed. That IS the WHOLE CRUX of the religion. It's what he was created for, his purpose. There is no blame attached to Jews. He even instructed Judas to go and tell the Roman snatch team where to find him.
I never understood that blame the church attached to Jews for hundreds of years- they blamed them for killing jesus when it was supposedly his sacrificial purpose to die and take all the sins etc.
Millions of jews have died over the centuries for that prejudice.

I don't blame the Jews any more than anybody else. The Jewish leaders in Jerusalem where the direct instigators, but that doesn't mean that every Jew is directly responsible. Jesus died for the sins of mankind, therefore anyone who who sins is responsible for the death of Jesus.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Of course. He was a Jew. The Jewish hierarchy arranged for him to be crucified because he spoke against and ignored the Jewish traditions. At first, even his own family did not believe in him, but later on his brother James became one of the foremost leaders of the early Christian church.

But..so then you consider him a Christian? I thought he was supposed to be a part of god . Christians are people who try to be "Christ-like" and accept him as such. At least that's how I understood it?
Also, it was part of god's eternal plan that he was to be sacrificed. That IS the WHOLE CRUX of the religion. It's what he was created for, his purpose. There is no blame attached to Jews. He even instructed Judas to go and tell the Roman snatch team where to find him.
I never understood that blame the church attached to Jews for hundreds of years- they blamed them for killing jesus when it was supposedly his sacrificial purpose to die and take all the sins etc.
Millions of jews have died over the centuries for that prejudice.

The New Testament plainly states that the Jews killed Jesus. On top of that the Babylonian Talmud brags that the Jews used 5 different methods to kill Jesus. So the evidence from the fairy tales is clear: the Jews killed Jesus.

[The Grand Nudger]

The gospels indicate that they didn't quite understand who or what he was at least some of the time, which makes you wonder why they dropped everything and followed him in the first place.

The gospels indicate this in the same way that the chorus reminds the audience. That's why it's there, for no other purpose. It's too distinctive and too heavy a signature. The author was familiar with greek tragedy (greek lit in general) and some of it snuck into his fiction/edit.

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I don't blame the Jews any more than anybody else. The Jewish leaders in Jerusalem where the direct instigators, but that doesn't mean that every Jew is directly responsible. Jesus died for the sins of mankind, therefore anyone who who sins is responsible for the death of Jesus.

I'll make your god a better deal. He can take my milliseconds off the cross. I'll carry them. NP. Now who's on Jesus' side, ghoul? It should be easy, my "god-given" sense of morality just tells me to own up to what I've done and refuse to allow another to be tortured for my actions. Sure hope I can manage to do that......

[vodkafan]

could be resolved through facts and logic, and it is not the concern of the Quran to dispute on these issues
The Quran only asked the Muslim to concern with "no sectarianism" and "human unity", this is the highest priority

and it is clear that there is no religion in the Quran
the word "religion" (madhab) has never been mentioned even once in the Quran
in facts, Islam came to end the "ideology of religion" and "sectarianism"



mmm. . . I don't believe in God, and there is no ideology of "God" in the Quran (refer here)

This is just my opinion.

Muslimatheism, I really can't figure out where you are coming from.... if you don't believe in god or religion why do you tie yourself slavishly to the quran?
You can't live your life by a medieval rule book .