A question about the love of god

[The Grand Nudger]

Riiiiiiiight, except for the nagging fact that disease exists whereas demons do not. There's no reason to twist yourself into a contextual knot Alpha, the demon theory of disease was good enough for jesus and the disciples (and to be blunt, the majority of peoples in the ANE, period). Now, I don't want to do those peoples any disservice - they also had physicians, which suggests that they didn't view -all- disease as being demonic in origin (simply that demons -could- cause disease under their conceptualization- and not always by posession).

That jesus "cured" physical ailments that we would diagnose as disease today by casting out demons and the laying of magical hands (and gave his disciples this superpower as well)in various places in the gospels (and that this is supported by countless stories similar to and supportive of such a conception throughout the entirety of the biblical narrative - which is why he just "had to" cast out demons in the first place) is simply beyond any reasonable argument. The literature in this regard, both from the biblical narrative and external sources, is conclusive - this was a connection that people made, period. The authors of the texts can be excused, disease is terrifying, and I'd be willing to bet that it was even more-so when it's various causes were still unclear. You, on the other hand, cannot - neither in the case of their beliefs or your apologetic attempts.

Why are the beliefs of the people who concocted this jesus shit, and ostensibly the beliefs of "jesus himself" so unacceptable? Who knows better- god, jesus, and the people of the ANE, or you? Similarly, who knows better what they meant when they told the story? Don't even get me started on fringe translations. Modern translations invariably become "fringe" translations when the idiocy represented in the greek (or any other language the text is derived from) rubs the translator the wrong way.

[John V]

(and that this is supported by countless stories similar to and supportive of such a conception throughout the entirety of the biblical narrative - which is why he just "had to" cast out demons in the first place)

Can you reference a handful of these countless OT stories?

[The Grand Nudger]

So you can obfuscate and meander around the issue? You leave me very little incentive to spoon feed you your own godamned fairy tales. Try google.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=demons+and+sickness

Specifically, with regards to messianic prophecy, why do you think we have christ walking around curing various ailments and casting out various diseases/demons to begin with (in addition to plenty of other "miracles")? The messiah had a prewritten cv, jesus must be made to walk the walk in the narrative.
Duet 18:15
Numerous references in Kings to leprosy and the messianic credentials (only god, according to mosaic law - could heal leprosy btw)
ISA 35:3
ISA 43:7
Heb2:4
Duet 11:3
(my favorite though, is when jesus casts out a demon that caused a man to be deaf and dumb - which would be tricky, or so the preists thought, as communication would be impossible - that makes it a miracle among miracles - of course the man could talk and hear after the fact)

The claim to messianic title is not through random application of magical abilities (as the people who believed this shit beleieved that others had magic as well) - but through specific, "prophecy fulfilling" magical abilities. You should know this. The jews, ultimately, called shenanigans, you christians (for some ridiculous reason) did not.

[John V]

So you can obfuscate and meander around the issue? You leave me very little incentive to spoon feed you your own godamned fairy tales. Try google.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=demons+and+sickness

IOW, you can't support your claim.

[Crossless2.0]

So you can obfuscate and meander around the issue? You leave me very little incentive to spoon feed you your own godamned fairy tales. Try google.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=demons+and+sickness

IOW, you can't support your claim.

I see the irony gods are working overtime today.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm okay with you falling back on that - it's your decision to remain ignorant about your own religion, and won't really cause me any greif Alpha. There's no passage in the bible that you couldn't translate away anyway. Like I said, Alpha knows best. Not god, not the prophets, not jesus, not the disciples, not the bible, not the people of the ANE.

[Brakeman]

So you can obfuscate and meander around the issue? You leave me very little incentive to spoon feed you your own godamned fairy tales. Try google.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=demons+and+sickness

IOW, you can't support your claim.

Your implied claim is that the bible doesn't equate disease and sickness with demon possession, contrary to the obvious and accepted opinion on this board. Only yourself is unconvinced apparently, and Rhythm evidently doesn't want to stop the flow of conversation in order to piss around with someone whose goal is to obfuscate and try to win arguments by forcing a forfeit by over-extension of their available time. You obviously know the verses of scripture that he was referring to, but instead you lie and play a game of posturing as if Rhythm had pulled this new idea out of his ass. This is fundamentally dishonest behavior. If you disagree with an idea, discuss it honestly and completely without the false posturing.

[The Grand Nudger]

Indeed, the rest of us can continue to have a productive discussion about the beliefs and limitations of the people involved - and why it might have been such a common belief in the first place. You add nothing to the conversation Alpha. If you want a seat at the grownup table, go get the info easily available to all and argued for mainly - by your fellow christians (to include the various authors and editors of the biblical narrative).

[John V]

Your implied claim is that the bible doesn't equate disease and sickness with demon possession,

Yes, and I've supported that claim with passages that refer to people with diseases and people possessed by demons as two different groups.

contrary to the obvious and accepted opinion on this board.

The board can believe what it likes.

Only yourself is unconvinced apparently, and Rhythm evidently doesn't want to stop the flow of conversation in order to piss around with someone whose goal is to obfuscate and try to win arguments by forcing a forfeit by over-extension of their available time. You obviously know the verses of scripture that he was referring to, but instead you lie and play a game of posturing as if Rhythm had pulled this new idea out of his ass.

No, I don't know the verses he is referring to. The only case I can think of in the OT is Saul, and in his case there was no physical ailment, it was rather a matter of mood. I also searched the OT on demon, devil, and evil spirit and came up blank. However, the OT is big, and I was giving him the opportunity of supporting his claim.

This is fundamentally dishonest behavior. If you disagree with an idea, discuss it honestly and completely without the false posturing.

You're nuts. Asking someone to support a claim isn't false posturing.

[The Grand Nudger]

You understand that arguing over the factual accuracy of the beliefs of those people with someone who apparently believes in demons, but not that said demons cause disease, that there is a difference between demonic possession and disease -and that difference in his belief is indicative of a distinction in the minds of those authors who penned the tales- is not very appealing to me, yes?