Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism

[psychoslice]

That's Ok, we are all where we are, I am where I am and you are where you are. Its ok if you think we are all separate, that's how its suppose to be, that is why we have our senses to feel through life, but we are more than that, its up to you to discover that, and if you don't then that's ok also, its no big deal and its not a race to the finish.

But we're one, how could we be in separate places simultaneously? I'm wondering if there's actually anything to discover or whether you just decided that it was time to inject some platitudinous bullshit that you weren't willing to actually stand up for-

or had never actually considered in any way whatsoever before having uttered it.

Again that's fine, you see all as separate I see all as one, and it doesn't matter what you or I think, and again its no big deal. My life has changed since I had this realization, and that's all that matter to me, you got your life, find the best in that and be happy.

[The Grand Nudger]

But I don't have my life, I have our life (and the lighters too...apparently), my ignorance of this realization is your own. If I don't possess this knowledge then neither do you, doppel-me.

[psychoslice]

But I don't have my life, I have our life (and the lighters too...apparently), my ignorance of this realization is your own. If I don't possess this knowledge then neither do you, doppel-me.

Be happy friend.

[The Grand Nudger]

If you're happy then I'm happy.

(obviously, when people go full retard it gets my goat, I guess you know that now - never go full retard)

[Chas]

Very interesting. Please tell me how I get outside the universe to make those observations.

Unfortunately, the lack of omniscience prevents me from being able to elaborate further. Maybe we can get a theist to ask god?

What you have, then, is an untestable, unfalsifiable hypothesis.

What you don't have is science.

[sswhateverlove]

Ok, I'm going to attempt to respond to most of what has been asked, the best I can. Taking into consideration limits within language is probably a significant barrier to discussion about this topic, as trying to speak of "all" from the perspective of "me", possibly understanding "a bit", about the "all". I'm attempting because you asked about my 80% confidence level and I'm trying to give that to you honestly.

First, the idea of consciousness. The idea I proposed is that we have a personal experience tunnel of reality that each of us would probably define as our personal awareness (think little Joey on his scooter). But how does this happen, what is involved? People who know a bit about neurobiology would say neuronal process, but I have to say I have not been convinced (by anything I've researched) that the brain and CNS are more than a small piece of the overall system. In my mind, simply from a "biological" perspective, the consciousness involves a dynamic dance between the sense receptors, the CNS, endocrine system, immune system, cardiovascular system the cells within the body that have my DNA, as well as the cells that don't (they say those 'other' cells outnumber mine 10to1 by the way). Further, I see the dynamic dance including the genome and changes in gene expression which is also engaged in a dynamic dance with the vibrational frequencies of everything in my environment. Though these processes are not normally considered "conscious" activities (they are obviously mostly done "unconsciously"), they are representative of the operational processes that are required to keep the organism functioning with our level of conscious awareness (hence, being "alive"=having conscious personal awareness). I should add here, however, that through deep meditation people have been known to be able to take "conscious" control of many of these processes, but that's another thread I think.

Is the lighter conscious? In the sense that it has a personal awareness reality tunnel? I don't know (I honestly don't know for sure if you have one either), but I would speculate no (regarding the lighter). Is it still a part of the larger consciousness story (the first perspective as I discussed)? I would speculate yes. In the sense that it is one of the influential environmental feedback responses that results in adjustments to the dynamic dance of your personal awareness producing "biological systems", it is as intrinsically part of your personal awareness experience as your neurons or the bacteria in your gut. Additionally, I venture to guess that every action you engage in that influences your environment is also providing feedback responses that are shaping all else that is to be experienced within your reality tunnel by you or other personal awarenesses sharing it. Unique experiences are had, but, from this perspective, everything is just a small piece of a larger consciousnesses picture that I assume to be much bigger than the restrictive labels and boundaries that have been put on it with our current language.

With regard to the particular theories I referred to, I'm making no claim of absolute accuracy of any of them or claiming that they fit together like puzzle pieces to form the total of "the truth". I've been following these sciences, and the directions explored by the theorists, because they seem to be moving in a direction that is getting closer to, what I perceive to be, an integrated study of consciousness, and a more comprehensive explanation of reality. I personally think this is the direction for science to go at this point if we are going to advance beyond our current state of knowledge and get a better understanding of ourselves and our existence.

[Mr Greene]

So cutting through the gish-gallop we can see you don't have the foggiest idea what is meant by the term 'Dark Matter' and freely admit you have no education in physics that would give you the framework to put the concepts of 'Dark Matter' or 'Dark Energy' into their proper positions.
You then launch into an aimless ramble on the subject of 'consciousness' with strong overtones of Deepak Chopra...
I don't suppose you can actually describe what you understand by the term 'consciousness' and get the strong impression that you've gotten involved in some 'New-Age' group that has essentially bamboozled you.

[sswhateverlove]

So cutting through the gish-gallop we can see you don't have the foggiest idea what is meant by the term 'Dark Matter' and freely admit you have no education in physics that would give you the framework to put the concepts of 'Dark Matter' or 'Dark Energy' into their proper positions.
You then launch into an aimless ramble on the subject of 'consciousness' with strong overtones of Deepak Chopra...
I don't suppose you can actually describe what you understand by the term 'consciousness' and get the strong impression that you've gotten involved in some 'New-Age' group that has essentially bamboozled you.

Pretty much all I know about dark matter and dark energy, I've learned from watching Neil Degrasse Tyson documentaries. The Ted Talk I posted had a piece at the end where the speaker was talking about researching patterned microwaves (actually sound waves) were detected on earth, and were assessed to be related to dark matter creating a invisible web-like scaffolding throughout the universe that has shaped all matter. She explores how dark matter would effect the way that normal matter evolves over time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYH_nFwMXRM

I don't think I can explain my opinion on the term of "consciousness" any better than the way I did in my last post. Is there something in particular you do not understand?

I'm have not been bamboozled. I've been studying consciousness from every angle I possibly could for quite a many years. This is what I've gathered from my personal observations, experience and research. You can take it or leave it.

In all honesty, this thread was about trying to get you all to share with me about what in science sways your opinion. I want to know about your perspectives on consciousness and the nature of existence. If you're not totally convinced (as I've been assured over and over is a strawman assumption) please share with me, what are you thoughts on the science of consciousness, astrophysics, quantum physics, epigenetics? Do you find it as fascinating as I do? What does it make you think about the nature of reality?

I shared. Now it's your turn.

[DramaQueen]

Is there a thing called atheist apologetics?

[Mr Greene]

Pretty much all I know about dark matter and dark energy, I've learned from watching Neil Degrasse Tyson documentaries. The Ted Talk I posted had a piece at the end where the speaker was talking about researching patterned microwaves (actually sound waves) were detected on earth, and were assessed to be related to dark matter creating a invisible web-like scaffolding throughout the universe that has shaped all matter. She explores how dark matter would effect the way that normal matter evolves over time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYH_nFwMXRM

Well for starters I think you need to learn how to post links, because that one doesn't work.

I don't think I can explain my opinion on the term of "consciousness" any better than the way I did in my last post. Is there something in particular you do not understand?

As stated there are strong overtones of Deepak Chopra which is an immediate warning klaxon.

I'm have not been bamboozled. I've been studying consciousness from every angle I possibly could for quite a many years. This is what I've gathered from my personal observations, experience and research. You can take it or leave it.

In all honesty, this thread was about trying to get you all to share with me about what in science sways your opinion. I want to know about your perspectives on consciousness and the nature of existence. If you're not totally convinced (as I've been assured over and over is a strawman assumption) please share with me, what are you thoughts on the science of consciousness, astrophysics, quantum physics, epigenetics? Do you find it as fascinating as I do? What does it make you think about the nature of reality?

I shared. Now it's your turn.

Certainly astronomy and biology are major interests of mine, I have a BSc in Applied Zoology, whilst a fair section of my personal library is by the late Patrick Moore OBE.
As for the variations on the Goldilocks Universe idea, which is where you seem to be heading. I think you have the cart before the horse.
1) Space is big... I refer to Copernicus as to our place within it.
2) We have evolved to adapt to our environment. You may characterize me as Neo-Darwinian.
3) Origins of the Universe. Start with A Brief History of Time by S. Hawking and A Universe From Nothing by L Krauss.

If you're looking for evidence of consciousness you are confined to this biosphere until SETI gets something positive.