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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 5:32 pm
(This post was last modified: September 17, 2014 at 5:33 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You think that CR's been describing his morality? Seems to me he's been describing how he has none. Far more effort has been put into explaining how he plans on fleeing from the consequences of whatever moral standard he's been invoking.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 5:36 pm
Lunch is here. Let's say grace. "Grace" Let's eat! 
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 6:09 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 5:03 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: From eye witness accounts I can undrrstand something of his personality.
You don't have eye witness anything, super stud. You've got books written years after Jesus died, by people who- within the context of the biblical narrative- never met Jesus, and who in real world terms might not even exist themselves as the consensus is generally that the gospels are anonymously authored, making claims about supposed eye witnesses who, curiously enough, never managed to write a single thing about Jesus while he was alive.
So you've got third or fourth hand accounts from nameless authors with a vested interest in making Jesus seem like a real person. Not really hugely compelling evidence, so stop trying to overstate the case.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 6:14 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 4:57 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: (September 17, 2014 at 4:56 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: You are not answering the question.
The question was, is there anything that a human could do in this finite life, including the disbelief in the existence in Yahweh, that deserves infinite torture?
Yes sinning.
Are you actually saying that we deserve infinite torture for a finite crime?
How is that justice or mercy? Aren't these supposed attributes of your god?
If you had control over my eternity, would you sentence me to eternal torture for nothing more than the thought crime of not being convinced that Yahweh exists?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 6:29 pm
Maybe he should check out Universalism. You don't have to believe in eternal hell to be a Christian. There is an alternative explanation that seems to be apparent to those inclined to believe God is merciful.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 7:14 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 4:44 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: I don't believe I took advantage. If you admit that you're a lowly sinner who does not deserve salvation and you accept the salvation being offered, you have taken advantage of the offer. Which means that on top of being a lowly sinner, you are also seeking to avoid paying for the sins you've committed. That simply isn't just. God may be this super nice guy to allow you to skip out on the punishment that you so richly deserve, but unless you accept the punishment you've just added one more sin to the top of the list. Man up, bud! Spend that eternity in hell-- YOU EARNED IT!
Quote: I thank God for it and am deeply sorry when I sin.
Are you saying that being deeply sorry is sufficient to absolve you of guilt?
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 7:42 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 5:36 pm)ShaMan Wrote: Lunch is here. Let's say grace. "Grace" Let's eat!
"Lord, we cleared this land; we ploughed it, sowed it, and harvested it. We cooked the harvest. It wouldn't be here - we wouldn't be eating it - if we hadn't done it all ourselves.
We worked dog-bone hard for every crumb and morsel but we thank you just the same anyway, Lord, for this food we're about to eat.
Amen."
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 8:02 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 3:47 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: (September 17, 2014 at 3:42 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Therefore making my point "the average Joe (which you all are) isn't scientific, he accepts what hes told by the experts."
you admit that you..
•do not know for a fact that dark matter exists
•That dark matter has not been proven
•or dark matter could be something else entirely
Yet you still subscribe to the Theory because it "seems good for now".
Not very scientific, and contradicts your earlier statement
"We don't accept things based on the credentials of the person saying it, we accept things based on their truth value, which is often demonstrated through experiment and study."
That being said, I'm going to take a bit of a break.
The "best guess for now" is what science does, Huggable. It looks at the current evidence and constructs our best guess for what explains it. You've been hideously intellectually dishonest in this thread, and you show no desire to actually learn how science works. What a waste of time.
Pssh, take as long of a break as you want..
Hold up.... so you're saying that science is based upon the "best guess for now"? No proof is required then? So if the best guess for how the universe was created is God (which has never been disproven), why don't you accept this scientific method? 
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 8:10 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 8:02 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (September 17, 2014 at 3:47 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: The "best guess for now" is what science does, Huggable. It looks at the current evidence and constructs our best guess for what explains it. You've been hideously intellectually dishonest in this thread, and you show no desire to actually learn how science works. What a waste of time.
Pssh, take as long of a break as you want..
Hold up.... so you're saying that science is based upon the "best guess for now"? No proof is required then? So if the best guess for how the universe was created is God (which has never been disproven), why don't you accept this scientific method?
Oh my lord, your right! I have to get to the Hindu now temple now! Praise Vishnu!!
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 8:14 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 8:02 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Hold up.... so you're saying that science is based upon the "best guess for now"? No proof is required then? So if the best guess for how the universe was created is God (which has never been disproven), why don't you accept this scientific method?
Look up the difference between "proof" and "evidence".
While you're about it, check out what the scientific method has to say about the burden of proof. (Yes, I recognise how contradictory that sounds. I didn't choose the language. Had I been consulted, I daresay it would have a much better name.)
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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