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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 4:46 pm
(This post was last modified: September 17, 2014 at 4:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You agree with my question? Care to specify which and elaborate upon that agreement?
(sorry to have misread you btw, from my pov, it started to look like you were turning into jello, mea culpa, mea culpa)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 4:47 pm
(This post was last modified: September 17, 2014 at 4:50 pm by C4RM5.)
(September 17, 2014 at 4:45 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Just not sorry enough to man up and do the time, eh?
Goc wants us to be saved that is why he sent his son to die for are sins.
Let me change my answer, I may of misread your question , sorry.
(September 17, 2014 at 4:38 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: (September 17, 2014 at 4:34 pm)ShaMan Wrote: Guys, guys, guys...... Here, try this. ![[Image: passing-joint-smiley-emoticon.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.sherv.net%2Fcm%2Femo%2Fsmoke%2Fpassing-joint-smiley-emoticon.gif)
I don't smoke but I can stand back at a save enough distance and watch.
(September 17, 2014 at 4:38 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: That's what we in the biz call an assertion. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, as the saying goes. What is your case that we deserve this infinite punishment for things we've done in our finite lives? Yes
Very simplily my case is that we have all fallen short of the glory of God and therefore with be separared from him in Hell.
But he sent his son to die on the cross so we can be with God.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 4:56 pm
(This post was last modified: September 17, 2014 at 4:57 pm by Simon Moon.)
(September 17, 2014 at 4:47 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: Very simplily my case is that we have all fallen short of the glory of God and therefore with be separared from him in Hell.
But he sent his son to die on the cross so we can be with God.
You are not answering the question.
The question was, is there anything that a human could do in this finite life, including the disbelief in the existence in Yahweh, that deserves infinite punishment?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 4:57 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 4:56 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (September 17, 2014 at 4:47 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: Very simplily my case is that we have all fallen short of the glory of God and therefore with be separared from him in Hell.
But he sent his son to die on the cross so we can be with God.
You are not answering the question.
The question was, is there anything that a human could do in this finite life, including the disbelief in the existence in Yahweh, that deserves infinite torture?
Yes sinning.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 5:01 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 4:32 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: (September 17, 2014 at 4:31 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: If all you know about someone is what you've heard and all you perceive of them is generated between your ears, the only thing you can follow is your idea of the person. The gospels are an eye witness account of Jesus' life, I know who he is from that.
You have a secondhand (at best, that the Gospels are eyewitness accounts is tradition, not confirmed) description that's given you an idea of who Jesus is in your opinion. There wouldn't be thousands of different Christian denominations if 'know' was the right word for what you've gotten from the Gospels.
What color were Jesus's eyes? What was his favorite color? How tall was he? Did he have any distinguishing physical characteristics in life? What was his favorite food? What did he do between the ages of 3 and 30? Hell isn't a concept in Judaism, why did Jesus introduce it? How can you be sure he actually said everything attributed to him? Maybe he said all the good stuff and all the creepy stuff was inserted to make people more obedient to the church hierarchy.
What I'm getting at is that you can't really know him in the way you could say you really know another person. You can't even know how much you would have wanted to know about him wasn't written down (minimum of 40 years later, probably not by an eyewitness).
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 5:03 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 5:01 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: (September 17, 2014 at 4:32 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: The gospels are an eye witness account of Jesus' life, I know who he is from that.
You have a secondhand (at best, that the Gospels are eyewitness accounts is tradition, not confirmed) description that's given you an idea of who Jesus is in your opinion. There wouldn't be thousands of different Christian denominations if 'know' was the right word for what you've gotten from the Gospels.
What color were Jesus's eyes? What was his favorite color? How tall was he? Did he have any distinguishing physical characteristics in life? What was his favorite food? What did he do between the ages of 3 and 30? Hell isn't a concept in Judaism, why did Jesus introduce it? How can you be sure he actually said everything attributed to him? Maybe he said all the good stuff and all the creepy stuff was inserted to make people more obedient to the church hierarchy.
What I'm getting at is that you can't really know him in the way you could say you really know another person. You can't even know how much you would have wanted to know about him wasn't written down (minimum of 40 years later, probably not by an eyewitness).
From eye witness accounts I can undrrstand something of his personality.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 5:05 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 4:37 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: I think the question should be what haven't I done.
You are also punishiable for not doing things in life, for example denying God.
The answer should be an explanation for how these crimes could be so heinous that torture for eternity is justice?
Justice is when the punishment is proportionate to the crime. The punishment being greatly in excess of the crime is pretty much the definition of 'unjust'. Doesn't seem to have any remote relationship with mercy, either.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 5:06 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 4:57 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: Yes sinning.
What exactly is sin? If I am to be accused of a crime, you'd better be damn sure of the definition of that crime.
And why does that deserve infinite torture?
Put it this way. In England, we outlawed torture way back in 1215, with the exceptions of cases where Royal Consent was given and it was in the public interest. Since then, only thirty-four Torture Warrants were issued, for cases such as the infamous Gunpowder Plot against James I. None of the cases on record ever went beyond the intended remit of the torture; ie once the objective had been achieved, the torture ended.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 5:08 pm
(This post was last modified: September 17, 2014 at 5:16 pm by Mister Agenda.)
(September 17, 2014 at 4:41 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: I haven't noticed anything wrong with my claims.
Dude, you just answered a 'what's your case?' question with 'yes'. That really makes it sound like you've noticed something wrong with the claims you are making.
(September 17, 2014 at 4:47 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: Very simplily my case is that we have all fallen short of the glory of God and therefore with be separared from him in Hell.
But he sent his son to die on the cross so we can be with God.
Thanks for clarifying. Still doesn't really answer why we deserve infinite torture instead of, say, extinguishment or reincarnation.
(September 17, 2014 at 5:03 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: From eye witness accounts I can undrrstand something of his personality.
Yes, from supposed eyewitness accounts you can get an idea of what he may have been like. Which neatly explains around 40,000 denominations of Christianity. There's plenty of room for disagreement over the particulars.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Christians. Could you be wrong?
September 17, 2014 at 5:29 pm
(September 17, 2014 at 4:57 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: (September 17, 2014 at 4:56 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: You are not answering the question.
The question was, is there anything that a human could do in this finite life, including the disbelief in the existence in Yahweh, that deserves infinite torture?
Yes sinning.
That is a sick morality.
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