In need of a more humbleness. Why condemning the Theistic position makes no sense.

[Mudhammam]

Um. Because patently absurd and irrational theistic beliefs cause people to do crazy things, squander their talents, and delude their offspring?

[rexbeccarox]

Most of us don't condemn theists for their religion or their beliefs. Most of us would just be happy if they kept their beliefs to themselves is all.

Why should they keep their beliefs to themselves?

They don't have to, of course, but they should because nobody else cares, and it makes them look crazy?

Obviously I meant they should keep it to themselves in things like politics and education. A lot of them just can't seem to keep it in their pants, and it affects all of society.

[ShaMan]

@MysticKnight...

I hold a few beliefs that would make some people cringe (atheists and theists alike). Do you know why I don't take any heat for my unique beliefs? Because I don't share them in pious platitudes and abundant and never-ending dogmatic repetition like most people do (theists and atheists alike). Do you know how I share my beliefs? I live them out. It's amazing how much more positively my unusual beliefs can manifest the good I intend from them when they remain practiced, rather than preached.

[Mystic]

Therefore it is more reasonable that some Atheists take a more humble approach to their Atheism, that they simply state this is the position they take, but they don't necessarily condemn the Theistic position.

(word in bold added)
(quote altered to reflect a more proper position)

I suspect most atheists are fine with people holding theistic beliefs. Our objection comes when theism is foisted upon us as though our position were unworthy of consideration. This entire argument goes both ways equally.

What I met by condemn is say it is wrong. I guess I should of used another word.

From a Theistic point of view, he has reason to believe that God exists. It doesn't make sense from a Theistic point of view to reject weak Atheism as wrong, because weak Atheism just doesn't believe in God without rejecting God outright.

For a Theist to claim to know what another person must have experienced and their state of mind should be exactly as theirs would be exactly the same mistake I am pointing out.

However, if a Theist is correct in their claim of knowing God, then they know there is a God.

However, if an Atheist is correct in their claim, then still they don't know whether there is a God or not or whether he is known to others or not.

So my argument is not even from the point of view Theists are correct. It's from the neutral point of view.

[SteelCurtain]

Why should they keep their beliefs to themselves?

If by this you mean why should their beliefs be a private matter, then the answer is that while that would be preferred, most of us aren't suggesting that. Do what you will amongst your peers.

We are suggesting, however, that they not attempt to legislate their beliefs, discriminate against those that don't share those beliefs, retard scientific progress, teach religion in public schools as fact, and knock on my fucking door trying to draft me into their death cult.

Practice your religion, sing your songs, wear your shirts, vote the way you want to vote, just don't involve me in it.

[The Grand Nudger]

The "neutral point" from which theists are right if they're right, and atheists are still wrong if they're right...................

[ShaMan]

So my argument is not even from the point of view Theists are correct. It's from the neutral point of view.

I am a peacemaker. I sometimes take heat for being such - it comes with the territory. What does not come with the territory however, is a place to tell others how to behave. As a peacemaker, I do all I can to become the change I desire in the world, rather than telling others to do so.

I think humility is a good path toward conciliation, but when religion takes a default position of superiority, it necessarily forfeits its humility to its arrogance, leading to violence, dominance and control.

[Mystic]

The "neutral point" from which theists are right if they're right, and atheists are still wrong if they're right...................

I don't get what you mean. Where did I say Atheists would be wrong. As far as I know Theists make a claim about god(s), but Atheists don't. They simply state they don't believe in a god.

[ShaMan]

As far as I know Theists make a claim about god(s)...

(excerpt)

Which includes judgment and condemnation of groups with differing ideologies (including atheists and counter-belief systems).

[Mystic]

As far as I know Theists make a claim about god(s)...

(excerpt)

Which includes judgment and condemnation of groups with differing ideologies (including atheists and counter-belief systems).

True, but we aren't talking about them. Theists have their problems obviously. We don't always have to look at others before looking at ourselves. Or justify our faults by finding faults in others.

In this case, if Atheists wouldn't say believers are wrong for their faith in God but that they simply don't believe in God and are very skeptical over any faith or first hand experience as knowledge of God. That would be far more respectable.

I think humans don't like more neutral point of views and always feel like they have to take a fight or flight. They feel like they have to take sides.

It doesn't have to be that way.