Existence of Israel is fulfillment of Biblical prophesies

[Minimalist]

check this out.. looks like jesus is using same bacground with Zarathushtra...

Nice hat!

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Created by Pharaoh Akhenaten(not sure though)

I have a problem with that whole idea, though. Yeah, Akhenaten concocted a religion about sun worship but it only lasted 20 years and was stamped out with a vengeance when he died.

Archaeology has dismissed all of this "Israel in Egypt" crap which is based on nothing but the OT and, as such, is damn near worthless. 200 years of excavations in Egypt have turned up no evidence that there were ever any "Hebrew slaves" there. None.

The first time that "Israel" appears in the record is the Merneptah stele but even this is a shaky reference because it doesn't really say "Israel" (it says Ysirir, or something) and the stele is written in Egyptian. The word appears no where else in the entire corpus of Egyptian literature so calling it "Israel" in the sense that the term is used in the OT is a stretch.

The villages in the Eastern Hill region of Palestine which gave rise to the later Israelites arose c 1200 BC. William Dever calls them 'proto-Israelite' and Finkelstein won't even go that far. That's 250 years after Akhenaten's experiment was smashed.

OTOH, however, we can see a gradual shift from polytheism throughout the ancient near east to a henotheistic culture in which one god gains primacy over the others and becomes a "king of the gods."
Marduk in Babylon being a good example of this. How much of a step is it, intellectually, from a king of the gods to a single god? The zoroastrians provided this step and in the Persian Empire they had a vehicle to spread it. Not dissimilar to what the Romans eventually did for xtians or the Arabs did for islam....to our unending sorrow in both cases.

[theophilus]

still they are not believe in jesus. Yet their land has been given to them. So god punished them for not believing jesus. then he forgave them while their belief hasn't changed.Your god is really an unstable person my friend...

Their punishment isn't over yet. There will still be a time of punishment ahead of them in the land and their final repentance and conversion will take place when Jesus returns.

Three words:

1. Self
2. Fulfilling
3. Prophecy

Next?

The problem with this idea is that the people most responsible for the restoration of Israel didn't believe in the prophecies. Most Jews in Israel are secular and it is highly unlikely that the other world leaders involved were believers in the Bible.

There is one exception to this. When Israel declared its independence President Truman immediately recognized its nationhood. In some of his later statements he compared himself to Cyrus, the Persian king who was responsible for Israel's return from Babylon, so it seems likely that he was intentionally trying to fulfill prophecy. But his action took place after Israel was already established.

Your fucking 'god' also told David

2 Samuel 7

16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me ; your throne will be established forever.' "

"Forever" in this case ended in 586 BC when the Babylonians burned Jerusalem to the ground.

Some 'god.'

This prophecy will still be fulfilled. Jesus was a descendant of David and is the rightful heir to his throne. When he returns he will establish a kingdom that will never end.

I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that you may like to buy.

How much do you want for it?

[Minimalist]

This prophecy will still be fulfilled. Jesus was a descendant of David and is the rightful heir to his throne. When he returns he will establish a kingdom that will never end.

What a lunatic.

[annatar]

their final repentance and conversion will take place when Jesus returns.

you mean never...

[DeistPaladin]

Three words:

1. Self
2. Fulfilling
3. Prophecy

Next?

The problem with this idea is that the people most responsible for the restoration of Israel didn't believe in the prophecies. Most Jews in Israel are secular and it is highly unlikely that the other world leaders involved were believers in the Bible.

Many Jews in Israel may be secular today, I'll just take your word on that, but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue the Zionists that established Israel were. I doubt seriously that the British government in the 1940s were run by atheists. However, you can feel free to present your evidence for your claim and I'll consider it.

The connection today to fundy end-timers in America and the more hard-line elements of Israel can't be denied and the motive is clear.

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What a lunatic.

And he has a new definition of "forever". And here I thought that "forever" meant "from this time forward" but it appears he thinks there can be 2,500 year gap in the middle and the prophecy still applies.

"Forever with a few millennial breaks here and there".

[Violet]

It was God who has kept the attempts at genocide from succeeding.

genocide |ˈjenəˌsīd|
noun
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

Genocide does not suggest that they were extinct by said method. A homicide is a targeted killing of a human... just as a genocide is a targeted killing of a race. The 'Holocaust' was genocide, among other fun things.

For the genocide to have not succeeded, it would have had to be as a failed pesticide: ineffective. Instead, the 'Holocaust' killed a massive quantity of 'Jews' (among other people)... as a strong pesticide might kill a swarm of mosquitos.

But the Greeks have had a nation of their own. The Jews have been scattered among other nations where they were outsiders. Anyone in that position would face the temptation to become assimilated into the dominant culture to make life easier.

So one needs a nation to maintain their national identity? I notice that many peoples and cultures have been "scattered about", no longer with much collective power... I call these 'also-rans'. Not anyone in such a position faces temptation to assimilate... but it is often those who do so when faced with (perhaps) an unbeatable enemy that survive.

[Jaysyn]

Your fucking 'god' also told David

"Forever" in this case ended in 586 BC when the Babylonians burned Jerusalem to the ground.

Some 'god.'

This prophecy will still be fulfilled. Jesus was a descendant of David and is the rightful heir to his throne. When he returns he will establish a kingdom that will never end.

So how heavy are those goalposts are that you've been moving?

[Violet]

And which would be obliterated by the numerous enemies surrounding it if other nations were to stop propping it up.

Uh, no. Can you say 7 Day War & Air Force second only to the USA in training & equipment. Israel is bloodthirsty & their next serious aggressor will more than likely be nuked out of existence.

Nuke your neighbors? That's a wise idea

Consider their population and economic disadvantages, as well as the apparent fact that (at least some of) their opponents appear willing to commit suicide taking them out. Also consider precisely how many people will be infuriated by such an attack... and that many of the islamic states would band together to reciprocate, as is justice in much of that part of the world. Such an attack would also shatter much of Israel's diplomacy in european countries (and even the US). Israel stands to lose a great deal if it should attempt to have an enemy 'nuked out of existence'.

You also appear to suggest that soldier training and their equipment make them invincible when faced with foes who have far less training and improvised equipment. While I agree that their soldiers are adequate at battling their current foes... they hardly suffer no losses. If Israel overreaches what it can handle, it will be dogpiled as many foes vie to bite off Israel's outstretched arm(s)... leading to numerous bite wounds, scratches, and bruises that Israel won't enjoy one bit, and which may be crippling in more ways than physical.

Bloodthirsty empires may lay the smack down on someone... but in doing so, they leave themselves weaker, and a third party might roll in and 'clean them up'.

[Minimalist]

And, um...how exactly is his so-called jesus related to "David?" I thought god snuck down and screwed mary or some such silly shit.

[Jaysyn]

And which would be obliterated by the numerous enemies surrounding it if other nations were to stop propping it up.

Uh, no. Can you say 6 Day War & Air Force second only to the USA in training & equipment. Israel is bloodthirsty & their next serious aggressor will more than likely be nuked out of existence.

If Israel overreaches what it can handle, it will be dogpiled as many foes vie to bite off Israel's outstretched arm(s)... leading to numerous bite wounds, scratches, and bruises that Israel won't enjoy one bit, and which may be crippling in more ways than physical.

Wishful thinking perhaps. If this was even close to the reality of the situation in the middle east it would have already happened.

"The Six-Day War of June 5–10, 1967 (also known as the June War) was a war between Israel and the neighboring states of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. The Arab states of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria also contributed troops and arms.[2]"

Emphasis mine.