To explain knowledge of God

[Lemonvariable72]

Copy pasta from previous page:

Drich says A/S/K, but the bible says seek and ye shall find. Lets just assume ONE of us, at least, knocked correctly, repeatedly, with all the prerequisites Drich has outlined as the 'correct method'. Does he just not have an answer for those people, as to why they sought and did not find?

Drrrrichh, can you explain? The bible says seek ye first the kingdom of god and his righteousness and you will find it, knock and the door shall be opened unto you, hallelu halleluiahhh.

It doesn't say, 'knock over and over and maybe god will open it for you if you did it right.'

No you have it wrong. If you did not find god you did not do it right!

[Aoi Magi]

Which god?

[Lemonvariable72]

Which god?

Shit now I can remember. Was it Elohim, Adonai, Or Yahweh?

[Tonus]

Jenny, I'm not familiar with Mormonism, sorry.

That's not something to be sorry for, prof.

Stimbo, if we all knew the consequences of our decisions ahead of time,
wouldn't that short circuit our free choices now?

You mean aside from the heaven/hell consequences, which are the only ones that matter in the long run?

---

I told you I do not know.
But this I do know, by experience, understanding and time-
No one will ever be justified by their own goodness, and self righteousness (good works) is the foundation of ALL non-Christian beliefs and that includes the fake Christian ones like the Mormons.

This is one of the things that makes Yahweh scary. While they differ on a lot of things, Christians do seem to generally believe that humanity is fallen and only redemption from god can save us. They believe that god's actions cannot be anything but good because it's his nature.

But your comment makes me wonder about the story of Job. Satan complains that god had protected Job and blessed his efforts, so that Job enjoyed prosperity and didn't fear the devil. The story also tells us that Job was "blameless and upright" and a god-fearing man. By your explanation, god did not owe any of this to Job. And when god withdrew his protection and told Satan to destroy Job's life (and murder at least a dozen, and possibly hundreds of people), the Christian belief is that there is nothing wrong with this --this is sanctioned by god and god cannot do anything wicked.

And the story supports this: Job understandably expects that god, being a good and just being, will eventually explain to him why he (and his family, and servants, etc) was put through such a terrible series of events. Near the end of the story, god shows up and makes a condescending and mocking speech which amounts to telling Job "who are YOU to expect ME to explain myself to you?" Having put Job through horrific trials, god bends him over one last time and Job apologizes for having the temerity to expect god to be honest with him.

Job learns what you guys explain: that god can do what he wants, and it's all good. And if you don't think it's good, he's got a cozy spot in hell where you can writhe and twist and burn for eternity, you ungrateful little snot. Even if you are blameless and upright, all it takes is a casual conversation on a slow day for god to unleash the devil to tear your world apart. Oh, what's that? You didn't appreciate it? What part of "FUCK YOU, I'M YAHWEH" did you not understand?

[The Grand Nudger]

He did give him a new family, sort of how you might buy a person a new lamp after having broken the old one.

[Tonus]

Yeah, Job's wife must have been thrilled to learn she was going to push out another ten kids. Who says Job got the worst of it? :|

[professor]

I can talk about Job.
Job declared the thing he GREATLY feared had come upon him.
Notice the word God used in his conversation about Job- he IS in your hand.
The fear Job was in, put him out of faith and into the hand of the devil and the devil did not know it.
God did not say to the devil to kill his kids.
God did say- he is in your hand only spare his life.

The experience of Job illustrates why the devil is a fear monger.
It is everywhere, promoted by media, Hollywood and government and is the opposite of faith.
By the way, everyone has a faith of some kind.
Without that you would not get out of bed in the morning.

[The Grand Nudger]

God did not say to the devil to kill his kids.
God did say- he is in your hand only spare his life.

Riight, like the mobster says. "Maybe your house will burn down, and then maybe they find your bloated body washed up on the beach". It's called plausible deniability, you let your thugs interpret your orders creatively. I assume that God must have had some idea - maybe just an inkling..... of what the Devil was going to do to when he said -Hey, I want you to pay our friend Job and his family a "visit"- but don't kill him, capiche?-

But what would I know, perhaps your mob lawyer theory of divinity is legit.

(I've got to mention to the peanut gallery here, that I'm constantly reminded of how I should be tolerant of people who put garbage like this forward....and this is a relatively mild expression of the moral, ethical, and intellectual bankruptcy of the christian faith. I can't, for the life of me see the point of tolerance faced with dipshittery like this.)

[Aoi Magi]

The fear Job was in, put him out of faith and into the hand of the devil and the devil did not know it.

Wait so God delivered Job in the hands of the devil AFTER Job showed fear and landed in the hand of devil? Hmm, not really how I remember it. He was rather faithful and God knew it, and yet he let the devil have his way, or am I missing something?

[Cyberman]

Stimbo, if we all knew the consequences of our decisions ahead of time,
wouldn't that short circuit our free choices now?

That doesn't even remotely address what I said. My point, which I'm getting tired of having to keep explaining, is that you are threatening dire consequences for behaviour against your gods before you've even established that there are any gods in the first place. First demonstrate that there is a monster under the bed before telling us what it will do to us.

That has nothing to do with free will, but since you brought it up: doesn't the 'knowledge' you want us to buy concerning your gods also short-circuit our free choices now?