a contribution by a muslim.

[WinterHold]

What, the idea that humans can do both good and bad things is new to some people? Sorry but I'm not buying that. I refuse to accept that people can be that naïve.

The sarcasm leads me to think it's something I said before ; that you understood in the wrong context.
I never said that an atheist would never do good ; my theory was that under certain conditions, atheism would guide its follower to be more inclined to do bad since there is no believe in an after death judgement dictated by atheism.

One result is the atomic bomb. Of course the people who deployed it never feared an afterlife judgement.

---

I happen to know, back in Melbourne, a very good Muslim doctor, and he is absolutely brilliant.

I also know of a case from the UK a few years ago where female Muslim medical students who refused to wear short-sleeved scrubs because it was against their religion, thereby putting their religious beliefs above the welfare of their patients (there are reasons why scrubs are short sleeved).

So yes, good and bad among the religious.

Well, the concept was always this : if Islam is perfect ; anything coming with it is perfect too.
If the faith is putting the patient's health at risk, then it's a wrong faith.

One problem islamic teaching is suffering from, is the mixing of "honor" & local cultures with the faith, along with literal interpretations that above not making any sense ; they totally lead to disasters.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

One result is the atomic bomb. Of course the people who deployed it never feared an afterlife judgement.

Not fearing an afterlife judgment isn't a position unique to atheists.

Boru

[FifthElement]

... atheism would guide its follower to be more inclined to do bad since there is no believe in an after death judgement dictated by atheism.

B.S.

And you know it.

I'm an Atheist from the country that was torn apart by civil war and religious nuts (leaders and followers). Seen with my own eyes what Christians, Muslims and Protestants did.

I walked through entire villages where everything was killed (man, women, kids, old people, cats and dogs, even farm animals).

My point is, MOST if not ALL of you reject after death judgement when pressed into a corner, somehow it is all justified then.

So, yeah, B.S.

It's easy to take high moral ground when you sit somewhere safe and where you can play armchair general game on your computer

[Cyberman]

What, the idea that humans can do both good and bad things is new to some people? Sorry but I'm not buying that. I refuse to accept that people can be that naïve.

The sarcasm leads me to think it's something I said before ; that you understood in the wrong context.

No, you don't get to insinuate sarcasm into my words, especially where there is none. That's my call, not yours.

I never said that an atheist would never do good ;

Good, because neither did I.

my theory was that under certain conditions, atheism would guide its follower to be more inclined to do bad since there is no believe in an after death judgement dictated by atheism.

Consider that, to an atheist, this life is the only one we know for certain we're going to get. Wouldn't that make it infinitely more precious than the belief that if we sign up to some extremely dodgy pyramid scheme we'll earn the extra life cheat code after we snuff it?

Besides which, if the only thing preventing you from doing bad things is the threat of post-mortem judgement, you must have a dismally low opinion of yourself.

One result is the atomic bomb. Of course the people who deployed it never feared an afterlife judgement.

Total non-sequitur. Who in your judgement was the more evil: the people who deployed the atomic weapons, the people who invented them or the people who built them? Consider that their use, as deplorable as it was, brought an extremely bloody war to a rapid end and directly saved thousands of lives.

If you're trying to say that nuclear weapons are a bad thing, I agree.

[Thumpalumpacus]

umm what does that program have to do anything with your religion?

It doesn't. But lots of people believe that muslims are either this :



or this


By this topic, I spread awareness that some Muslims are normal people who contribute to humanity & the world
I'm trying to show that as there are criminals and fanatics -which exist in every society- islam has nothing to do with it.

What's funny is that while you're griping about generalizations here, you're making them in your own threads about atheists.

Physician, heal thyself.

[miniboes]

Total non-sequitur. Who in your judgement was the more evil: the people who deployed the atomic weapons, the people who invented them or the people who built them? Consider that their use, as deplorable as it was, brought an extremely bloody war to a rapid end and directly saved thousands of lives.

Yeah, the atomic bombs were worth it even if just to stop the fire raids. It was actually quite a moral decision.

Atlass, here's something I wonder about: The Indian Ocean Earthquake/Tsunami in 2004 is estimated to have killed over 225 000 people. Many of these people will have been innocent women and children, that have known of no other religion than Hinduism for all their lives. According to your holy books, these people will burn in hell for an eternity. I don't know how a being that would do that can possibly be moral. It sounds to me like a divine Kim Jong Un. Can your god truly be loving whilst doing this?

Besides, how can the earthquake/tsunami happen anyway? Is your god not powerful enough to stop it (not omnipotent) or does he not give a shit about those people (not loving)?

[Chas]

The sarcasm leads me to think it's something I said before ; that you understood in the wrong context.
I never said that an atheist would never do good ; my theory was that under certain conditions, atheism would guide its follower to be more inclined to do bad since there is no believe in an after death judgement dictated by atheism.

One result is the atomic bomb. Of course the people who deployed it never feared an afterlife judgement.

The President of the United States, Harry S. Truman, who made the decision to drop those bombs was a Southern Baptist.

I really dislike your inaccurate generalizations. They're really annoying.

[WinterHold]

One result is the atomic bomb. Of course the people who deployed it never feared an afterlife judgement.

Not fearing an afterlife judgment isn't a position unique to atheists.

Boru

I'm with you on that. It's totally not an "atheist thing" ; even some Muslims don't believe in the judgement of the afterlife.

FifthElement


Not taking god seriously is another problem many religious people have. I never considered Christianity to be taking god seriously anyways (since the representation of god as a father is the most humiliating thing ever committed against god) and then the concept of salvation.

The real judgement day which is described like this in the Quran :

( 33 ) But when there comes the Deafening Blast
( 34 ) On the Day a man will flee from his brother
( 35 ) And his mother and his father
( 36 ) And his wife and his children,
( 37 ) For every man, that Day, will be a matter adequate for him.
( 38 ) [Some] faces, that Day, will be bright -
( 39 ) Laughing, rejoicing at good news.
( 40 ) And [other] faces, that Day, will have upon them dust. P 858

To me, these verses -along with many others- are enough to scare every person who believes in them, because obviously every person will be judged according to his/her own actions, away from anything else..

My point is : a real believe in verses such as these, would make that corner "non-existent". To a person who purely believes in judgement day, blood will never be shed randomly , even in extreme cases of desperation -because dying here with a gun is better than burning forever then-.

Or, the person is not taking god seriously.
-_- yes I admit, I haven't seen a gunshot in my life.

Are you Bosnian ?


Stimbo

No, you don't get to insinuate sarcasm into my words, especially where there is none. That's my call, not yours.

Alright.
Yes, some people are so naive . and because of their ideas, they cause suffering to others.

Consider that, to an atheist, this life is the only one we know for certain we're going to get. Wouldn't that make it infinitely more precious than the belief that if we sign up to some extremely dodgy pyramid scheme we'll earn the extra life cheat code after we snuff it?

Here's where the Islamic philosophy differs.
This life is no more than a prequel to the next ; it wasn't meant to be lived and rejoiced purely.

If I used to live in a high standard of living which allows me to enjoy life, it's not the same for others. As we speak now, children are dying in Africa from hunger, millions of them are starving. To me, that's not a perfect life.

I won't consider a life "precious" -enjoyment wise- with so much pain around me. Even if I don't experience it, it doesn't mean it's not there.
It's not about a group of greedy people who want to live twice. It's more about this life not being perfect in any form ; let alone precious.

The only thing making life on earth precious according to my understanding of Islam, is that it's the one & only duration for a person to do good deeds that would save him/her through the judgement day.

I agree with you that life is very "precious", but not because we're supposed to have fun in it. Not after I see ISIS cutting the heads of others, or American soldiers "scoring some Iraqies", or kids dying in africa because of hunger & sickness. It has always been like this ; life is only livable if it provides all humans with the same standard -something you find in heaven but not here-.

Besides which, if the only thing preventing you from doing bad things is the threat of post-mortem judgement, you must have a dismally low opinion of yourself.

Not really.

Usually, god creates humans with "instincts" and "emotions" that prevent them from doing bad stuff. A person who kills knows it's wrong ; but the definitions might vary.

I just happen to have a backup fundamental, that strengthen my instincts and emotions towards bad stuff ; and that is faith & believe in after death judgement.

I don't think about it every second, my instinct & emotions take care of the regular daily basis things. But when I get stuck in a corner like the FifthElement said, sure thing this believe in judgement will play a huge role in my decision -since instinct & emotions would probably fail-.

Parkers Tan

I didn't.
Some of the people who spread bad ideas about Muslims, are Christians, Jews, and even muslims.


miniboes

Nobody knows if they went to hell or not, each of them will be judged alone ; I know nothing about it.
But I can guarantee that criminals will suffer.

Though, the idea of the "Father" is a catholic faith that is not related to Islam. God is not human, not an alien, god is not a created living organism.

God in Islam -and I'm basing this on the Quran only ; which I believe to be the only pure text left-, is more like...nature. More like something above the limits of time, space & matter.
You can't blame him for depopulating a place, or making a balance system like the one on earth. Just like when the dinosaurs vanished.

This verse from the Quran, god speaks about his perspective :

( 18 ) But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination.

The concept of "loving god" was literally forged, because many couldn't handle this perspective : god is literally a god, above the borders of time, he creates, he's not human neither a creation.

What does he want from us ? well, he is life.
We just don't know it yet.

Chas


I was criticizing the media !
and then, I give you my word that I won't generalize. I said all people do good & bad, how do you see that as generalization ??

[miniboes]

Yeah, I don't see the difference between him and Kim Jong Un. You sit on your ass while you watch the people you rule suffer. If that being existed it would be a sickening one, and it better have a damn good explanation.

[jesus_wept]

Probably one of those "anti-arab" people who skin arabs alive in europe in race crimes.

On the of chance this isn't a joke, do you have any evidence Europeans are skinning Arabs alive? It's the first I've heard of it.