Mormon: "There is no such thing as rape."

[FatAndFaithless]

Alpha, if you really can't understand my points, and the absence of a magic "standard" in the universe, then I'm not sure what I can say to help you grasp it.

If you really can't fathom how to act morally without the decreed rules of your God, then..damn dude, having any sort of moral discussion with you is rather pointless...

[John V]

Moving the goal posts here, since neither the bible nor you have talked about teenage daughters so far.

People didn't live long back then. The passages were about women not yet betrothed. I thought it was accepted that women were married off fairly soon after puberty back then. Do you think they tended to wait until their twenties?

---

Alpha, if you really can't understand my points, and the absence of a magic "standard" in the universe, then I'm not sure what I can say to help you grasp it.

No, I can't understand the incomprehensible, such as the conflicting positions that there is no objective measure of morality, yet some morality is better or correct.

[FatAndFaithless]

Better in the sense that it increases wellbeing, yup. It's not compared against an objective standard sitting out there on stone tablets in the universe, it's compared to other actions or decisions.

[John V]

Better in the sense that it increases wellbeing, yup.

And why is that the standard?

[FatAndFaithless]

*Rolls his eyes heavily*

Good lord..

It's not "the" standard. I'm saying that it's a good starting point for a standard because it's proven to be an effective way to structure societies and moral ideas. If you can think of a better standard, I'm all ears.

[John V]

It's not "the" standard. I'm saying that it's a good starting point for a standard because it's proven to be an effective way to structure societies

Why are effective societies morally good?

and moral ideas.

By what standard, and why is that the standard?

If you can think of a better standard, I'm all ears.

Er, I've been arguing that there is no better or worse, just different.

[FatAndFaithless]

It's not "the" standard. I'm saying that it's a good starting point for a standard because it's proven to be an effective way to structure societies

Why are effective societies morally good?

and moral ideas.

By what standard, and why is that the standard?

If you can think of a better standard, I'm all ears.

Er, I've been arguing that there is no better or worse, just different.

Are you really going down to the most reduced relativistic level where you really claim to not know why a functioning society is a good thing?

If you want a straight up selfish justification, a functioning and stable society increases the chances that me and my offspring live a healthier, more enjoyable life which in turn increases the likelihood of my genes being passed down.

If you want a more social justification, an effective society is preferable to a chaotic one because it allows for greater endeavors in pretty much every single field of knowledge (healthcare, science, technology, etc), and the benefits that everyone enjoys from these advances will also apply to me and my family.

[John V]

Are you really going down to the most reduced relativistic level where you really claim to not know why a functioning society is a good thing?

Yes. Actually I went there some time ago. Look at what we're doing to the planet. One could easily argue that the world would be better off without our functioning societies.

[FatAndFaithless]

Welp, there's not much I can discuss with someone who doesn't view functioning, stable human society as something desirable.

[abaris]

Look at what we're doing to the planet. One could easily argue that the world would be better off without our functioning societies.

That's taking it to a whole new level. The world would be better off without our species if it comes to this. But as human beings living on this planet and in societies, we better do our best to make it work.

Bronze Age morality certainly won't get us anywhere near this point.