Religion vs. Disbelief: No Hope. Why bother?

[LivingNumbers6.626]

As I am witnessing and identifying my thoughts and feelings more often I am identifying these few simply facts (for me):

1) The mormon church is seducing and sometimes I miss it.
2) I can't get these damn church songs out of my head!
3) My beliefs were exactly that: just a belief. Which leads me to think: do true blue believers only have beliefs? Or have they found a way to make their belief appear as fact?
4) Those who are willfully religious don't think like I do and I don't think like they do. There is nearly no hope for common ground with most religious people.
5) People are religious for the same reasons why I miss the mormon church: it's familiar, comfortable, and it hands you the answers. No reason to question or think...God already did that for us.

So through thinking about this, I see it impossible to ever find religion obsolete or defeated. Humans need religion. They might not objectively need it, but they think they need it. Everyone needs something to save them and for most, religion is the answer.

For many religious people in my sect, they spend money in their faith...alot. They spend time in their faith...alot. There are tons of catchy songs...18 years of songs. 4 years of morning seminary. Hours of scripture study. It's pure brainwash.

Put it this way, you can't convince a human to walk on four legs and insist that it is better for them. The human has already learned to walk on two and likes it that way very much.

Religion is the same way. The religious prefer to walk on all fours, they are convinced it is better. They are strong in this method and it is familiar and comfortable. They will never think or act like a human who walks on two feet. It is impossible. it is foreign, and it is scary.

I think that, ultimately, religion will never cease to exist but only mutate.

Our best hope is that religion mutates in a positive direction for a secular society.

[dyresand]

well its tempting to be ignorant but it doesn't mean its right. i would like to be religious but i cannot be religious as i would be ignorant.
That is the problem with religion you can be apart of a "family" and be accepted if you choose the ignorance. But being an atheist is like being
the black sheep on the far side of the pasture with the others. While atheist have no type of community like theism does that's the problem because
well it tends to get lonely.

[robvalue]

Atheists can have just as good communities, it's just a matter of finding enough of us!

---

I guess in some ways, religious is like drugs, alcohol and such. It's a crutch to try and get you through life when you feel it is unbearable.

The worst of it is though is that religion will try and make you feel your life is unbearable, even when it isn't, so that you will need them. It's the equivalent of spiking you with heroin to get you addicted.

[ManMachine]

As I am witnessing and identifying my thoughts and feelings more often I am identifying these few simply facts (for me):

1) The mormon church is seducing and sometimes I miss it.
2) I can't get these damn church songs out of my head!
3) My beliefs were exactly that: just a belief. Which leads me to think: do true blue believers only have beliefs? Or have they found a way to make their belief appear as fact?
4) Those who are willfully religious don't think like I do and I don't think like they do. There is nearly no hope for common ground with most religious people.
5) People are religious for the same reasons why I miss the mormon church: it's familiar, comfortable, and it hands you the answers. No reason to question or think...God already did that for us.

So through thinking about this, I see it impossible to ever find religion obsolete or defeated. Humans need religion. They might not objectively need it, but they think they need it. Everyone needs something to save them and for most, religion is the answer.

For many religious people in my sect, they spend money in their faith...alot. They spend time in their faith...alot. There are tons of catchy songs...18 years of songs. 4 years of morning seminary. Hours of scripture study. It's pure brainwash.

Put it this way, you can't convince a human to walk on four legs and insist that it is better for them. The human has already learned to walk on two and likes it that way very much.

Religion is the same way. The religious prefer to walk on all fours, they are convinced it is better. They are strong in this method and it is familiar and comfortable. They will never think or act like a human who walks on two feet. It is impossible. it is foreign, and it is scary.

I think that, ultimately, religion will never cease to exist but only mutate.

Our best hope is that religion mutates in a positive direction for a secular society.

Religion may cease to exist, but we will always need systems of belief. They are not the same.

MM

[KevinM1]

As I am witnessing and identifying my thoughts and feelings more often I am identifying these few simply facts (for me):

1) The mormon church is seducing and sometimes I miss it.
2) I can't get these damn church songs out of my head!
3) My beliefs were exactly that: just a belief. Which leads me to think: do true blue believers only have beliefs? Or have they found a way to make their belief appear as fact?
4) Those who are willfully religious don't think like I do and I don't think like they do. There is nearly no hope for common ground with most religious people.
5) People are religious for the same reasons why I miss the mormon church: it's familiar, comfortable, and it hands you the answers. No reason to question or think...God already did that for us.

So through thinking about this, I see it impossible to ever find religion obsolete or defeated. Humans need religion. They might not objectively need it, but they think they need it. Everyone needs something to save them and for most, religion is the answer.

For many religious people in my sect, they spend money in their faith...alot. They spend time in their faith...alot. There are tons of catchy songs...18 years of songs. 4 years of morning seminary. Hours of scripture study. It's pure brainwash.

Put it this way, you can't convince a human to walk on four legs and insist that it is better for them. The human has already learned to walk on two and likes it that way very much.

Religion is the same way. The religious prefer to walk on all fours, they are convinced it is better. They are strong in this method and it is familiar and comfortable. They will never think or act like a human who walks on two feet. It is impossible. it is foreign, and it is scary.

I think that, ultimately, religion will never cease to exist but only mutate.

Our best hope is that religion mutates in a positive direction for a secular society.

The part I bolded above? That's religion talking, specifically Christianity. The insidiousness of Christianity stems from it telling/teaching people that they are nothing without obedience and deference to god. That they must be saved from themselves not because they are inherently flawed, but because they are irredeemable otherwise. It's part of the pattern of mental abuse that is found within religion. "I give up my own agency to a tyrant because I am nothing without them. My punishment is deserved because I acted contrary to his whims."

It's bullshit conditioning. Yes, people are flawed, but we don't need saving. We're not helpless, and we're not destined to merely wallow in those flaws. We don't need saving. We need understanding, patience, and the resolve to help and uplift each other when necessary. We can get that on our own. No sky daddy required.

[Strider]

It's bullshit conditioning. Yes, people are flawed, but we don't need saving. We're not helpless, and we're not destined to merely wallow in those flaws. We don't need saving. We need understanding, patience, and the resolve to help and uplift each other when necessary. We can get that on our own. No sky daddy required.

This right here. You nailed it.

I feel very sorry for the brainwashed masses that honestly believe and feel they are nothing when told they are unworthy. We could ascend to the highest levels imaginable if people would discard these bullshit ideas and superstition in favor of aspiring toward making the world better than it is now.

[Tonus]

3) My beliefs were exactly that: just a belief. Which leads me to think: do true blue believers only have beliefs? Or have they found a way to make their belief appear as fact?

We treat the things we believe as if they are fact. We can hold on to the things we believe via ritual and repetition, which is why so many religions use both so heavily. It's very difficult to just drop a belief system unless you replace the rituals and repetition with something else. It's a form of deprogramming. Take note of the things you used to do that are linked with your old religious beliefs (attending church and church functions, reading religious literature, prayer time, etc) and find activities to replace them with (going window shopping, meeting a friend for lunch, reading books, exercising, etc).

It's the old method for "taking your mind off of whatever troubles you." The less time spent thinking about it, the more it diminishes and is replaced by something else. Make a list of things you want to do or achieve, then make a list of ways to accomplish each one, and start to fill your time with those activities. You can kill two birds with one stone; building self-esteem through productive activities while burying the old belief system.

[dyresand]

Atheists can have just as good communities, it's just a matter of finding enough of us!

---

I guess in some ways, religious is like drugs, alcohol and such. It's a crutch to try and get you through life when you feel it is unbearable.

The worst of it is though is that religion will try and make you feel your life is unbearable, even when it isn't, so that you will need them. It's the equivalent of spiking you with heroin to get you addicted.

the biggest issue some radical christians would firebomb the location saying that when they go to jail were godless heathens and devils.

[FatAndFaithless]

If by "some christians" you mean "nearly 0", then..yea I guess.

[polar bear]

The songs? really? They are fluffy shit, NO musical value in them. It is just that we sung them so much we got used to them and they were familiar. As a test, go out and buy the latest christian music (dont spend too much) and now listen to it for its musical value. You won't be swayed by the familiarity of the song so just listen.

I know you are 21 (i think) but there is GREAT music out there. I like rock and roll but if you are into other stuff go to the symphony, catch a country band at a local bar, download some rap. It all is better than the fluffy shit that was forced down our ears. Just enjoy the new music, it will become familiar to you soon!