Respecting Christian family and friends

[watchamadoodle]

From the perspective of Judaism, Christianity suffers from premature ejaculation. Sure, sure the messiah is coming but this crazy, Jewish carpenter is not the one. Christians are jews who got excited too easily.

Notice how almost all of history can be explained in terms of human sexuality. Remarkable, really.

Flexibility vs. rigidity?

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...I think you're conflating issues. There's no guarantee that the kids will end up Catholics. My mother won the Jew argument, and here I am...an atheist.

I agree rigidity doesn't always win, but it only needs to increase the probability.

On the other hand, Buddhism seems to be a flexible religion, but it has successfully competed against other religions.

[thesummerqueen]

Being unable to adapt to new technology because you're rigidly stuck using old stuff makes you irrelevant in the job force.

Being rigid on your social attitudes makes you unable to adapt to changing climes, making you irrelevant as anything but a laughing stock, except maybe to a select few.

The increase in acceptance of gay marriage can be cited as an example. Just because socially rigid fuckers exist doesn't mean they're increasing the pool of people who hate gays. Quite the opposite - the people who hate gays are dying off or changing.

EDIT: I clearly shouldn't be on this forum on only one cup of coffee when I make grammatical errors like the one I just fixed. Fuck.

[watchamadoodle]

Being unable to adapt to new technology because you're rigidly stuck using old stuff makes you irrelevant in the job force.

Being rigid on your social attitudes makes you unable to adapt to changing climes, making you irrelevant as anything but a laughing stock, except maybe to a select few.

The increase in acceptance of gay marriage can be cited as an example. Just because socially rigid fuckers exist doesn't mean they're increasing the pool of people who hate gays. Quite the opposite - the people who hate gays are dying off or changing.

EDIT: I clearly shouldn't be on this forum on only one cup of coffee when I make grammatical errors like the one I just fixed. Fuck.

That is a good point. I'm not sure what I think.

Based on Pew Forum surveys the only growing denomination in the US is the Pentecostals. The flexible denominations like the Episcopalians are soon to be extinct. People respect Episcopalian ideas, but those ideas dilute the intensity of devotion and make it easier for Episcopalians to become non-religious.

The hell doctrine is apparently essential to Christianity's survival. Christian Forum doesn't allow people to discuss universalism. CARM bans universalists (along with satanists).

(I was indoctrinated as an Episcopalian, so the hell doctrine was rarely mentioned. It has still been difficult for me to leave Christianity, so I know Christianity can find other ways to retain members. Still I think hell is useful for Christianity.)

[thesummerqueen]

I suspect you will only see any growth or stasis from groups which isolate themselves effectively, and even that is becoming harder and harder as the internet pervades everything. There's no reason to take a pessimistic viewpoint.

[watchamadoodle]

I suspect you will only see any growth or stasis from groups which isolate themselves effectively, and even that is becoming harder and harder as the internet pervades everything. There's no reason to take a pessimistic viewpoint.

That is true. However, one problem with the internet is that a person self-censors what information he/she receives. So the internet can expose Christians to non-Christian ideas, but it can also insulate a Christian from non-Christian ideas. I see the future of Christianity as scattered groups of isolated extremists. Maybe they will live together geographically in tiny Christian towns, or maybe they will insulate themselves through the internet. Maybe it will be a combination of the two.

[Spooky]

The cure for intolerance is not intolerance. I usually just play along.

[thesummerqueen]

That is true. However, one problem with the internet is that a person self-censors what information he/she receives. So the internet can expose Christians to non-Christian ideas, but it can also insulate a Christian from non-Christian ideas.

This only works when someone is strictly controlled in their internet use. You'd have to have some extreme parental blocking. If you think being part of an uber-sect isolates people enough, try looking up porn statistics in Utah, the great state of Mormon, vs the rest of the country. Someone's not isolating themselves enough.

Too many other Christians have come out saying that curiosity led them to wander elsewhere or communicate with others and it led to more open-mindedness or deconversion.

I see the future of Christianity as scattered groups of isolated extremists. Maybe they will live together geographically in tiny Christian towns, or maybe they will insulate themselves through the internet. Maybe it will be a combination of the two.

I feel like you've been reading too many Hunger-Games-esque books.

[Drich]

Here is my situation:

I am a middle-aged, unmarried guy, but my mother is a devout Christian and my siblings and their families are also Christian (although Christianity isn't central to their life in the way that it is to my mother's life). I visit my mother several times per week, because she lives alone.

I haven't been to church for several years, and my family is aware that I have had doubts about Christianity, but I have concealed my growing certainty that Christianity is false. I still find myself thinking Christian thoughts, and sometimes I wonder if Christians are interacting with a God of some kind even though the religion is factually false.

I've concealed my disbelief in Christianity, because I know it would upset my mother (she would worry that I am going to hell). I don't think anybody else in my family would care too much. I often watch Christian TV or movies with my mother. Sometimes we go to Christian bookstores. I don't go to church, but I've thought about attending a service now and then too.

I feel very conflicted. Concealing my true feelings is somewhat disrespectful. I feel a mixture of contempt and pity for Christians. I wish I could speak openly, but I don't want to poison their faith if it makes them happy. I hate the way Christianity divides people through the heaven and hell nonsense.

Just wondering if others face these issues?

I myself am not a fan of the fanatically religious. Or those who worship the art of worship/religion. Religion can be a double edged sword, in that it can bring people closer to God but at the same time religion can take people from Him.

Some of the greater opposition Christ faced was from the most devoutly religious of his day. Christ's answer was to show them the error of their way. If you can't do this in the way Christ did, then the best thing to do is to point them to someone who can, or just stay out of their way.

[ManMachine]

Here is my situation:

I am a middle-aged, unmarried guy, but my mother is a devout Christian and my siblings and their families are also Christian (although Christianity isn't central to their life in the way that it is to my mother's life). I visit my mother several times per week, because she lives alone.

I haven't been to church for several years, and my family is aware that I have had doubts about Christianity, but I have concealed my growing certainty that Christianity is false. I still find myself thinking Christian thoughts, and sometimes I wonder if Christians are interacting with a God of some kind even though the religion is factually false.

I've concealed my disbelief in Christianity, because I know it would upset my mother (she would worry that I am going to hell). I don't think anybody else in my family would care too much. I often watch Christian TV or movies with my mother. Sometimes we go to Christian bookstores. I don't go to church, but I've thought about attending a service now and then too.

I feel very conflicted. Concealing my true feelings is somewhat disrespectful. I feel a mixture of contempt and pity for Christians. I wish I could speak openly, but I don't want to poison their faith if it makes them happy. I hate the way Christianity divides people through the heaven and hell nonsense.

Just wondering if others face these issues?

Here's a thought.

You know that feeling that all other Christians have had the personal moment with their god and he moved through them and spoke with them, and you remember how you felt that although it hasn't happened to you just yet, you are still waiting and you are certain it will come?

Well they are all waiting for it to come. It's the big unspoken secret none of them will admit.

MM

[Whateverist]

I myself am not a fan of the fanatically religious. Or those who worship the art of worship/religion. Religion can be a double edged sword, in that it can bring people closer to God but at the same time religion can take people from Him.

Interesting. I wonder how many xtians share your point of view.

Sounds like what you are a fan of is your own interpretation of religion. That is the two edged sword. It divides those who are too rigid or lax from those who are just right. So it would seem not just man but your own ego is the measure of all things.

Of course, like every other xtian you would then go to the bible and grab a handful of scripture or two to prop up your point of view. Also interesting to note how every xtian who is not just right on the Drich scale does the exact same thing to prop of their errant perspectives.