Catholics Aren't Christians?

[abaris]

There are Catholic atheists, as we've seen here recently. How can they be atheists and Christians at the same time? "Christian" here, by these definitions, does not involve belief on God.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. I was a catholic and a christian. Now I'm an ex catholic and not a christian. So what's that about catholic atheists?

[fr0d0]

I was just repeating what other people are saying here albaris. It made no sense to me either.

If you were born a Catholic, and haven't been excommunicated, or whatever pagan ritual your particular sect requires, then you are presumably still a Catholic? As Catholic=Christian you are therefore a Christian Atheist (according to the posters above).

[Regina]

I was raised Catholic and no Catholic was "born" it. We go through the baptism to be initiated into it. My parents were never strict Catholics, I was just baptised out of pressure from my Maltese and Irish grandparents, who were far more into it. Unless by "born" it, you mean baptised as a baby before one has a choice?

Anyway, I've never been excommunicated but I still no longer call myself "Catholic". If I've stopped believing in the religion, then I don't see a need to keep calling myself it. My lack of belief in it means I've already left, it invalidates the legitimacy of my identity as "Catholic". I'm struggling to word it clearly but I hope you get my meaning. You can just call yourself "atheist", there's no need for an initiation thing into it like there is with some religions, in fact I'd find it kinda paradoxical if there was.

[FatAndFaithless]

I no longer consider myself a catholic regardless of my parent's actions while I was a child any more than I would consider myself a Republican if my dad smeared chewing tobacco on my forehead when I was born and held me over a pack of braying rednecks on Pride Rock from Lion king.

[robvalue]

It's kind of gibberish really. The Catholic church can consider someone a catholic, or just make up that someone is Catholic. Unless it's someone professing their own beliefs, it's meaningless.

[FatAndFaithless]

Gotta hand it to those Mormons though, they know how to get already-dead non-Mormon ancestors an afterlife. They used to hold mass conversions for dead Jewish people (regardless if they got permission from the families or not) in order to whisk them away to salvation.

[robvalue]

That is indeed one of the stupidest things ever, even by the high bar set by religion. Converting dead people! And I heard some people actually got upset about that too, saying how dare you convert our dead people!

[fr0d0]

I was raised Catholic and no Catholic was "born" it. We go through the baptism to be initiated into it. My parents were never strict Catholics, I was just baptised out of pressure from my Maltese and Irish grandparents, who were far more into it. Unless by "born" it, you mean baptised as a baby before one has a choice?

Anyway, I've never been excommunicated but I still no longer call myself "Catholic". If I've stopped believing in the religion, then I don't see a need to keep calling myself it. My lack of belief in it means I've already left, it invalidates the legitimacy of my identity as "Catholic". I'm struggling to word it clearly but I hope you get my meaning. You can just call yourself "atheist", there's no need for an initiation thing into it like there is with some religions, in fact I'd find it kinda paradoxical if there was.

Yes apologies NJ I think you're right. You're born to it, in that your family choose it for you. It's a tradition/ cultural thing more than a conscious decision. Lots of non believing self professed Catholics have made no conscious decision or even thought about it much yet identify as believers. I guess that's as vague a definition of belief as it gets. I'd agree to call them Christians from your definition. Even trinitarian, to differentiate them from Mormons, for example.
Catholics have the initiation but it seems totally meaningless to me. My church don't have baptism at all. They have dedication ceremonies for kids. Parents/ whoever commit to care for the kids spiritual development. A clear attempt to more accurately reflect the original intention of the practice. Probably derived from parallel and/ or primitive precedence.

[Regina]

Oh no need to apologise, sorry my last post might have come across a little condescending and that wasn't my intention at all. Lord knows tone is one of the hardest things to get on the internet.



But yes I'd actually agree with you, there's very little "choice" involved and being baptised as a baby means nothing for how legitimate a Catholic you are, that's why we have the confirmation ceremony later one as an affirmation of Catholicism. Even then though it still happens during childhood so really too early for someone to know they really believe in it.

I was actually already questioning my religion as a child, I just didn't know or say anything out of a subconscious sense that questioning was the wrong thing to do. I'd look at certain things in the Bible like "Really? This didn't happen" haha

[robvalue]

No atheist initiation? But I spent five grand on this certificate, and the ceremony... and the weeks of gruelling trials... I thought everyone did this!

Ahah I'm so funny. It's not even really a concious choice. Belief is a state of mind, and when your mind swaps over to being no longer convinced about bullshit God claims, you're done. That's why it's always so stupid that people ask why we choose to be atheists. I couldn't choose to be anything else. My brain requires evidence and reason.

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And yes, I can't believe how long we spend discussing stupid stories in the bible as if there's even the slightest chance they actually happened. It's like argueing about Santa, only more low-brow.