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RE: Dealing with Religious Family
January 14, 2015 at 12:52 pm
(This post was last modified: January 14, 2015 at 12:53 pm by wolfclan96.)
(January 14, 2015 at 11:50 am)watchamadoodle Wrote: @wolfclan96, how much does your family already know about your skepticism?
Can you simply keep your skepticism private?
Are you expected to attend church, donate money, etc. as an obligation of identifying as a Christian?
As far as they know I'm still christian at heart. What kills me inside though is the fact I cant even hint at what I really feel without emotions sorta rising. I tolled them I no longer wished to go to a certain church I've been attending for years as well as volunteered. This was pretty hard cause I did genuinly love and care about the people at my church...but couldn't take living out a lie every week.
Its like living in Orwell's "1984" but maybe not to the extreme of being executed for what I believe.
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RE: Dealing with Religious Family
January 14, 2015 at 12:56 pm
(This post was last modified: January 14, 2015 at 12:57 pm by robvalue.)
I'm very sorry  I hate how much religion puts a divide between people, it's so unnecessary. If peoples' friendship with you is dependent on towing the line, that really sucks. They are literally choosing nothing over a friend.
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RE: Dealing with Religious Family
January 14, 2015 at 2:21 pm
(January 14, 2015 at 12:52 pm)wolfclan96 Wrote: As far as they know I'm still christian at heart. What kills me inside though is the fact I cant even hint at what I really feel without emotions sorta rising. I tolled them I no longer wished to go to a certain church I've been attending for years as well as volunteered. This was pretty hard cause I did genuinly love and care about the people at my church...but couldn't take living out a lie every week.
Its like living in Orwell's "1984" but maybe not to the extreme of being executed for what I believe.
A couple of months ago, I became more comfortable that Christianity is bunk, and I have been making a special effort to do things to make family and friends assume I respect and believe Christianity. Whenever I visit my mother, I try to watch Christian TV. I'm hoping to attend church every Saturday evening with my mother at the Catholic church (even though we aren't Catholic). I might even start praying before meals.
Maybe a similar approach will work for you?
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RE: Dealing with Religious Family
January 14, 2015 at 4:49 pm
(January 14, 2015 at 2:21 pm)watchamadoodle Wrote: (January 14, 2015 at 12:52 pm)wolfclan96 Wrote: As far as they know I'm still christian at heart. What kills me inside though is the fact I cant even hint at what I really feel without emotions sorta rising. I tolled them I no longer wished to go to a certain church I've been attending for years as well as volunteered. This was pretty hard cause I did genuinly love and care about the people at my church...but couldn't take living out a lie every week.
Its like living in Orwell's "1984" but maybe not to the extreme of being executed for what I believe.
A couple of months ago, I became more comfortable that Christianity is bunk, and I have been making a special effort to do things to make family and friends assume I respect and believe Christianity. Whenever I visit my mother, I try to watch Christian TV. I'm hoping to attend church every Saturday evening with my mother at the Catholic church (even though we aren't Catholic). I might even start praying before meals.
Maybe a similar approach will work for you?
I see what you're saying but it doesnt deal with the root of the problem (for me at least). Its not that I'm hating going through the motions or expressions of a particular faith system...I couldnt care less. Eating bread and other ceremonial and ritualistic activities doesnt really matter in my eyes. One could do that all he wants but that doesnt necessarily mean he takes the beliefs behind it to heart.
What does matter is where his heart truelly is.
What I'm trying to say is that Its not going through the motions that bother me. I could do communion or group prayers and still shrug it off right afterwards...no big deal. What does bother me is the fact that I cant really be open and honest WITH MY OWN FAMILY about what I really believe withoute fear of em making my remaining days of Highschool misurable.
That is what bothers me most...
We claim that this nation was founded with principles such as religious freedom. Sure this is true (for the most part) in the sence of legality but socially this is untrue, at least in my opinion.
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RE: Dealing with Religious Family
January 14, 2015 at 5:36 pm
(January 14, 2015 at 4:49 pm)wolfclan96 Wrote: (January 14, 2015 at 2:21 pm)watchamadoodle Wrote: A couple of months ago, I became more comfortable that Christianity is bunk, and I have been making a special effort to do things to make family and friends assume I respect and believe Christianity. Whenever I visit my mother, I try to watch Christian TV. I'm hoping to attend church every Saturday evening with my mother at the Catholic church (even though we aren't Catholic). I might even start praying before meals.
Maybe a similar approach will work for you?
I see what you're saying but it doesnt deal with the root of the problem (for me at least). Its not that I'm hating going through the motions or expressions of a particular faith system...I couldnt care less. Eating bread and other ceremonial and ritualistic activities doesnt really matter in my eyes. One could do that all he wants but that doesnt necessarily mean he takes the beliefs behind it to heart.
What does matter is where his heart truelly is.
What I'm trying to say is that Its not going through the motions that bother me. I could do communion or group prayers and still shrug it off right afterwards...no big deal. What does bother me is the fact that I cant really be open and honest WITH MY OWN FAMILY about what I really believe withoute fear of em making my remaining days of Highschool misurable.
That is what bothers me most...
We claim that this nation was founded with principles such as religious freedom. Sure this is true (for the most part) in the sence of legality but socially this is untrue, at least in my opinion.
Christianity being well the majority they feel like they have the power to say we are a christian nation. Our founding fathers were deists they weren't Christian. They knew if religion was given power to run a country it would be a tyranny and that is why all religions are on equal ground.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Dealing with Religious Family
January 14, 2015 at 7:52 pm
(January 14, 2015 at 4:49 pm)wolfclan96 Wrote: I see what you're saying but it doesnt deal with the root of the problem (for me at least). Its not that I'm hating going through the motions or expressions of a particular faith system...I couldnt care less. Eating bread and other ceremonial and ritualistic activities doesnt really matter in my eyes. One could do that all he wants but that doesnt necessarily mean he takes the beliefs behind it to heart.
What does matter is where his heart truelly is.
What I'm trying to say is that Its not going through the motions that bother me. I could do communion or group prayers and still shrug it off right afterwards...no big deal. What does bother me is the fact that I cant really be open and honest WITH MY OWN FAMILY about what I really believe withoute fear of em making my remaining days of Highschool misurable.
That is what bothers me most...
We claim that this nation was founded with principles such as religious freedom. Sure this is true (for the most part) in the sence of legality but socially this is untrue, at least in my opinion.
If your concerns about being open with your parents are valid, then you should simply accept that reality - just like you accept that the Christian beliefs you were taught aren't true. You can talk with other atheists and ex-Christians on the internet to share your feelings. There is a forum specifically for ex-Cristians that might be informative ( http://www.ex-christian.net/ ). I sympathize with the frustration of hiding your non-belief as if it is shameful when in fact you should be proud of yourself for recognizing reality. 
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RE: Dealing with Religious Family
January 14, 2015 at 11:40 pm
(This post was last modified: January 14, 2015 at 11:41 pm by Godscreated.)
(January 14, 2015 at 9:05 am)wolfclan96 Wrote: (January 14, 2015 at 3:04 am)Godschild Wrote: What was it you believed, you never said you were a Christian, being raised in a baptist church doesn't make one a Christian, it only makes you one of millions who were raised in a Baptist church. Do you know exactly what the scriptures teach, it sounds like you do not, or you wouldn't have had to argue with a friend about God, that would been something you would do with yourself if you knew what the scriptures said.
Welcome to the forum,
GC
Sorry for not being more clearer. For the longest time I was a Christian at heart,
What does being a "Christian at heart" mean to you, I'm curious?
Quote: having believed what I heard in church and what not.
What was it you heard and define "what not," I'm not sure I can understand what you mean without you being more specific.
Quote: What I mean about debates with the friend was more of him speaking his two cents on the matter that were just simply unarguable.
What were some of these unarguable matters, was his two cents worth offensive, was it dumb, did it make any sense?
Quote:You are right of me not being completely familure with scripture, though I have read a good bit it at very least.
If you haven't read the entire Bible, it seems to me you could not draw an opinion of it's content without study and IMO study can't be through if you are only reading and not sure what the Bible actually says.
Quote:To be completely honest I probably just fallowed because I was never really taught anything else and felt it was right.
...then I grew up.
I did not come to know much of the truths of scripture until I had grown up and studied for several years. Regardless of what most here say about the Bible it's not a fairy tale or myth (is there an actual distinction between the two) for enjoyable reading and leave it at that. It's a serious work that could have never come together in it's present form without an external guide(God).
Christianity has very little to do with feeling, it has everything to do with learning and knowledge, seeking what is true, knocking to receive the truth and after the truth is given it's up to you to reject it or accept it. Has any of this been a process in your life. You shouldn't leave learning to others they are fallible and might misguide you, a search with God will reveal what is true and real from what's a lie and false. Now I do not mean you shouldn't listen to others, you should, you should check it out against the Bible and find if it's the truth.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Dealing with Religious Family
January 15, 2015 at 12:06 am
Families can be very toxic, they do have the right to believe what they want to believe, and only the intelligent and strong will break away from this poisonous environment when mature enough, many families need to grow up, in fact many parents are the children while their children are the parents.
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RE: Dealing with Religious Family
January 15, 2015 at 12:14 am
It seems to me that when a family is being like this, they are sending the message that it's more important to them that you share their beliefs, than you are a good person who still loves them. I don't know if pointing out such a thing would be helpful. It's really sad for people to put religion above actual decency and the love for your family. The other route I suppose, if they make it hard, is to debate them. Watch lots of videos, get tons of arguments together and point out (politely) the sheer absurdity of it all.
For example, are they creationists? If so, they are denying heaps of scientific knowledge based on a crusty book's say so. If they are not creationists, then Adam and Eve is at best allegorical, and original sin never happened. That means the main purpose for jesus, to take this sin from us, is redundant. It just becomes a bizarre theatre where God comes down to earth and sacrifices himself to himself in order to satisfy himself that he can change rules he himself made, because he has to give himself a reason to do so, as he refuses to just do it himself without all this weirdness.
That's just, like, the warm up act. I could go on all day hehe.
I really hope you can find some kind of compromise with your family. Maybe agree to just not talk about religious things, and concentrate on being a family?
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RE: Dealing with Religious Family
January 15, 2015 at 1:13 am
(January 14, 2015 at 11:40 pm)Godschild Wrote: I did not come to know much of the truths of scripture until I had grown up and studied for several years. Regardless of what most here say about the Bible it's not a fairy tale or myth (is there an actual distinction between the two) for enjoyable reading and leave it at that. It's a serious work that could have never come together in it's present form without an external guide(God).
Christianity has very little to do with feeling, it has everything to do with learning and knowledge, seeking what is true, knocking to receive the truth and after the truth is given it's up to you to reject it or accept it. Has any of this been a process in your life. You shouldn't leave learning to others they are fallible and might misguide you, a search with God will reveal what is true and real from what's a lie and false. Now I do not mean you shouldn't listen to others, you should, you should check it out against the Bible and find if it's the truth.
GC
Let me sum up my thoughts in a little scenario called..."The Crappy Vacuum"
Lets say theoretically I wanted to build a vacuum but knew before hand the design was flawed and ultimately knew withoute a doubt that I was only gonna get angry with it. Any rational Human being would probably save the trouble and not build the vacuum in the first place, right?
What god does is this...
Knowing before hand it's flaws and ultimately dissatisfaction (if you believe him to be all knowing) builds the vacume...then gets mad at it for being the vacuum he designed.
But it doesnt end there...
Instead of discontinueing the obviously "flawed" product...he goes on to manufacture millions and millions of that same vacuum only to be condemned into fiery damnation (which he knew already would happen but builds that particular vacuum anyway. For shits and giggles I suppose) and all that is only if you actually believe in all that bs...
It doesnt require allot of thought and research dude...just comman sence.
What "loving" father knowingly brings their child into the world knowing it was doomed to suffer hell fire?...deemed by none other then the father himself.
The Bible in of it's self was written by men, no matter how much you sugar coat it. Therefor opt to human error or personal "edit". I refuse to believe something just because it is said so in a two thousand something odd book...im sorry but no. But to be fair I will continue reading it (which am a good ways through already...never said I didnt read the bible "at all")
Im sorry if I came off hostile and offencive...but I really spoke from the debths with this.
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