Girl dies of stupid parents

[Thackerie]

At least to that fucking spelling mistake.

I love it when people point out spelling mistakes, they have nothing real to add to the conversations and the replies are as I expected, you all are extremely easy to lump together, because you all evolved out of the same lump.

GC

Oh, wow! So GC believes in evolution, now? Does that mean his stupid act is, indeed, an act?

[Mister Agenda]

All depends your point of view. She was the one going through the chemo and she was the one who had the vision.

Yeah, she had some kind of experience. I'm pretty sure she was on drugs at the time.

You think that she should have been forced to continue treatment because the best thing for her would be to remain here and live out her life.

It sure would be a slippery slope to start deciding the best thing for certain people is that they should die when they're not old enough to be considered to have the judgment necessary to drive a car or vote.

That's because you believe that the only thing we have to live for is right here.

It's because I know what's knowable and what's not knowable.

She is with Jesus now.

And that's not knowable.

Even if you are right and she was wrong, she doesn't care now anyway.

That's true.

Is someone who lives to be 100 luckier that someone who dies at 11?

Pretty much by definition, though I'm sure there are a small percentage of exceptions.

[Esquilax]

Might surprise you to learn that plenty of atheists think that abortions sought by minors should have parental involvement in that decision as well.

Imagine his shock when he learns that this involvement generally extends to a comprehensive sexual education designed to prevent ever getting to the stage where an abortion is necessary. It's no coincidence that the rate of abortions among populations that teach abstinence only education is so high, nor that a similar correlation can be drawn between religious conservatism and higher rates of abortions and teen pregnancy too. GC can point out his perceived inconsistencies all he likes, but there's the real inconsistency; the chances of ever being in an underage abortion situation, as a parent, is reduced if that parent is an atheist simply by dint of atheists being more inclined to proper sex education.

[Mister Agenda]

How is dying a natural death suicide?

When probably not dying is an option.

Suicide is indeed a sin, but it is not the unforgivable sin.

This is interesting, and brings up quite a point. The only way to be forgiven by God for the sin of committing suicide is after you're dead. It would actually be reasonable if you could still repent once you found out the real score. Just not very effective at scaring people into sticking with your religion.

If this little girl had Jesus come to her and give her peace about dying I think she'll be ok..

It seems like Jesus advised her to seek alternate treatment. Oops.

[Esquilax]

If this little girl had Jesus come to her and give her peace about dying I think she'll be ok..

It seems like Jesus advised her to seek alternate treatment. Oops.

Yep, now we're just waiting for Drich to absorb this very obvious fact, that has been presented to him multiple times, in clear and unambiguous language.

... Might take a while.

[Mister Agenda]

You think the long-term survival rate is not longer now than it was 50 years ago, Doctor (I presume?)?

Today's 5 years survival rate is over 90% she was given a survival rate of 75% that was the same as 50 years ago. Why?

Probably because she was an individual, not a statisic, so her doctors estimated her chance of survival based on her individual case. I apologize for not understanding what you were actually arguing. In my defense, it's preposterous enough to make more sense the way I read it.

Should have been you next question. what was she give the 50 year old survival rate?

Why should you ask the same question twice in a row? The answer I gave above still suffices.

If you read the web page I provided survival rates go down when reoccurance rates go up. It is a ratio that is used to access a patient's survivablity coupled with quality of life. Since the artical did not mention this, it means her long term survival/quality of life was very low.

No, it doesn't. Her doctors saying that would be a justifiable reason for reaching that conclusion. An article about average outcomes off the internet is not a justifiable reason to dismiss the findings of a specific case.

Again you people are idots for pinning everything on some crooked writters pen, and just assuming that this girl's parents hear the jesus dream and loose their minds..

That seems to be the case with you. You heard 'Jesus' and nothing else matters, including the girl's life.

The ironic thing is this is exactly what the crooked writter of that artical wanted for you people, and guess what not one of you looked any of this up you just saw dead kid with 75% survival rate and filled in the blanks with your own predjuice.

Give me you and any random person in the world, and I will always bet on you being the one who is more crooked, all other things being equal. You aren't qualified to make the evaluation you have made. The people who estimated the girl's chances are far more qualified to do so than you. And it should be obvious to anyone who stops to think for a moment that applying averages to a specific case in invalid. The average American has a net worth of about $45,000. That doesn't mean my net worth is $45,000. She's a human being, not a statistic. Her doctors knew the details of her case intimately. The authors of the article you're referencing would proabably be appalled at the way you're misusing it.

How is it that you all not see how blind you really are how you have been conditioned/indoctrinated to think when you see trigger words like this artical is full of?

No one indoctrinated me. I figured this stuff out for myself. Interesting how so many people reach similar conclusions when they don't get their opinions from ancient scriptures, isn't it? Your thinking has more in common with the average Arab in Syria than with ours.

Neither is dying.

We'll see when push comes to shove in your own life.

There you go, fantasizing about misery being inflicted on other people. It's not a healthy pattern, Drich.

It is always so easy to push your morality off on others, but when you are facing a life of misery for yourself the justifications then become more viable somehow.

I am an adult. The part of my brain associated with rational judgment is as developed as it's going to get. No one else but me is responsible for making my health decisions. When my time comes, if I have the opportunity, my decisions will take into account the costs and benefits. Millions of adults opt to go through chemo every year, you have absolutely no reason to insinuate that I would make the same decision for myself as was made for this child, except for you being such a disengenuous, malicious twit.

They nuke your bone marrow and that means you have no amune system, (among a bunch of other blood related problems) so you have to live in a cancer ward till you recover (months.) Months of extreme pain and sickness may be too much if your just putting it off till later where there is only more pain and sickness..

So you think trading years for months is the smart bet, Doctor?

With cancer it is not quanity of life it is quality.

Which you're not qualified to assess, unlike the girl's doctors. You're filling in the gaps with your own prejudices.

[Lek]

You say that you have better resources, so do something about it.

I think he's saying that the Christian claim is that God has infinite resources, so doing something about the world's ills would be less than trivial for such a being.

Christians and atheists are already over there trying to relieve hunger and provide medial assistance. What are you doing?

What business is it of yours? You are in no position to even guess what Xeno is or is not doing, let alone imply that he is doing less than you. Sounds like you're trying to change the subject and make it personal.

Christians are to carry out God's work in the world. Jesus has told us to help the poor and needy. We are to be the instruments of his work on the earth. That's what christians are doing in Africa and other places where people are destitute. We all can't be there directly providing help, but we can give of our resources and we can also help our neighbors here. When I asked what he was doing to help, I was alluding to the fact that our job is not to sit back and call on God to fix everything, but to be involved in fixing it. That's what we're called to do. What bothers me is people that blast christians for not helping with people's physical needs, which we clearly do help with, but not doing anything about it themselves. If they are doing something, then good for them. I know there's atheists and other non-christians involved in this work too. While we're helping to feed and clothe people and help them become self-sufficient, we can also teach them that, even if they die dirt poor, they still have worth in this life and the next.

[Mister Agenda]

You know, I kind of wish we had a resident outspoken Episcopelian. I'm starting to get a skewed view of Christianity from our current crop of Christians.

[Nope]

This seems to be a case that most people on this board, Christian or atheists would agree. Some of the replies make me think that perhaps not everyone has read the article

Makayla was on her way to wellness, bravely fighting toward holistic well-being after the harsh side-effects that 12 weeks of chemotherapy inflicted on her body," the family statement read. "Chemotherapy did irreversible damage to her heart and major organs. This was the cause of the stroke."

The girl's mother thought the alternative medicine would cure her. This isn't a case where the eleven year old girl decided that she had enough pain and suffering. Apparently, she wanted to live.

[Esquilax]

The girl's mother thought the alternative medicine would cure her. This isn't a case where the eleven year old girl decided that she had enough pain and suffering. Apparently, she wanted to live.

Precisely. She just thought that the chemotherapy was hurting her, which isn't something I blame her for; it's a nasty treatment that leaves you feeling miserable, and if I was that young I'm sure I'd be looking at the side effects and coming to that conclusion too. The problem is that her mistaken conclusions were enabled by her parents, who apparently think that their alternative medicine was better and the chemo was harmful, because some people just want the miracle cure without any side effects no matter if it actually works, over having to deal with the nuanced, hard answer that real medicine is sometimes restricted to providing. So they fell for the pseudoscience because of their ignorance, and they dragged their child along with them, and now that child is dead and all the kind christians can do is try and spin this utter tragedy into some kind of win for their side.