Damned Mormons

[vorlon13]

Yeah, there is definitely a pattern to what is and isn't available for inspection/historical research from the extensive Mormon archives.

They KNOW what can't be released without debunking themselves, and are very careful. Hysterically, since they have changed so much doctrine since the start, they have inadvertently released copious damning documents in the past, not realizing what changes in dogma were coming in the future.

[vorlon13]

Belief in Joseph Smith's first vision is second in importance to believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ in the Mormon church.

Curiously, there are at least 3 accounts of the first vision.

What we will call the first here, notes Christ appeared to Joseph Smith

The second notes many angels appeared to him.

The third records God and Jesus appearing to him.


The church currently is enforcing belief in #3. Startling to imagine, the church endorsed a version of number one, only it was an angel and not Jesus. Also, while 1, 2, and 3 occurred in the forest, that version happened in Joseph's bedroom. That version was penned by Oliver Cowdery, and he had Joseph's approval to publish.

Account #1, however, is entirely written in Joseph's own hand. Church releases of the text of that account are altered to show God and Jesus appeared, not Jesus alone.

Further confusing the situation is the various versions, and their various variations, are cited to have occurred in different years; from 1820 on.

Another problem that arises, is in 1816 a minister wrote an account of his visitation, and it is broadly similar to all 3 of Joseph's versions. Worse, the Wayne Sentinel (a paper subscribed to by Joseph's parents) has another visitation story and it was published in 1823.

A further difficulty with the 'approved' version #3 is that Joseph received a revelation in 1832 that is impossible for a man, not in the Mormon priesthood, to see God without perishing. Joseph Smith, of course, was not a member of the priesthood at the time of the first vision of course, since the revelation establishing it hadn't been received yet either.


So, I am not just being snarky when I post the Mormon's don't know what their fundamental tenets are, they in fact, do NOT know what they are, and there are so many lies and so much confusion on this subject, that it is impossible to take seriously any account of Joseph's first vision.

[Clueless Morgan]

Yeah, there is definitely a pattern to what is and isn't available for inspection/historical research from the extensive Mormon archives.

[snip]

So, I am not just being snarky when I post the Mormon's don't know what their fundamental tenets are, they in fact, do NOT know what they are, and there are so many lies and so much confusion on this subject, that it is impossible to take seriously any account of Joseph's first vision.

I, for one, am not arguing that most Mormons are hopelessly ignorant of their own church's history, it's very clear that they are. The most common denominator among people who question and/or leave the church is finding out that the church actively suppresses negative (non-faith-promoting) information.

And you're absolutely right - most rank and file Mormons don't know that there are multiple accounts of the first vision. Most don't know that Joseph Smith "translated" the BOM by looking at a rock in a hat, either.

[JesusHChrist]

Most don't know that Joseph Smith "translated" the BOM by looking at a rock in a hat, either.

South Park did the world a large service there, by telling the Mormon story to a broad audience rather faithfully. No need to even put lip stick on the pig; the pig is quite ludicrous on its own.

[vorlon13]

Mormon administration KNOWS when they are doctoring the wording of something penned by Joe Smith himself that they are FUCKING up.

And they also KNOW when they are dealing with MULTIPLE inconsistent piles of BULSHIT from old Joe himself that he was FUCKING UP TOO.

Why can't they be fucking honest about it ??


{I know, why start now ??}

[Jackalope]

You guys need to cone to my next family reunion on my mom's side. Bunch of Mormons, that bunch. BYOB, of course.

[vorlon13]

It's just galling there is absolute proof of 3 inconsistent versions of the first vision (and variations of the versions too) existing, and Joe had a hand in all 3, and Mormon admin thinks belief in the version they've cobbled together is the #2 most critical thing to believe.

They've all told so many lies, and changed shit on mere whims for specious reasons, there is just too much BS to keep track of now. And they have let the horse out of the barn, themselves! They've approved crap for publication in official church organs, and then forgotten what they did, and then changed the doctrine, and they've done this on most all their doctrinal points !

Anyone notices shit is changing gets excommunicated too, icing on the fucking cake. They announce first time something is released its perfect, the accurate word of god, direct from on high, then they change it and get hissy when caught fudging the revelations.

I wonder how far down, starting at the top of the Mormon hierarchy, you would have to go to find someone polygraphically that is NOT KNOWINGLY LYING ?????????????????????????????????

[Clueless Morgan]

Unfortunately if you know what you're doing you can defeat a polygraph. It wouldn't surprise me if the Mormons taught their apostles and quorum how to defeat it. :p

[Vox Populi]

Holmberg said Bishop Troy Hansen of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints had been informed of the allegations of sexual abuse from fellow Bishop Matt Mires, but did not report it to authorities.

Unless I read this article wrong... The bishop *knew* about it but didn't report it? Isn't that a crime in itself?

As far as Mormons coming to your door. There is a trick you all can use the Jehovah Witnesses and the Mormons have a DNC List (No Not Contact). It's very easy to do. Next time JW show up say "I want on the DNC list" and say the DNC not Do Not Contact list. They will exactly know what you mean.

Mormons are a bit tricky and may take you an extra few minutes. In your area there is more then likely a "Stake Center" call them and leave them a message. Even bigger centers have there own Missionary Headquarters for the area. You can call them too.

JW I have seen rarely check voicemails. So you can try leaving a message.

[Minimalist]

Astounding Stupidity of the Mormon Kind


http://www.rawstory.com/2015/04/lawyer-d...hey-marry/

Lawyer defending Utah equality ban warns: Gays will cause 900,000 abortions if they marry

Huh?