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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 12, 2015 at 3:11 pm
Yeah. There may be something somewhere which created this reality. I'm not saying there isn't. I'm just saying there is no evidence suggesting that there is, and also we can't know anything about a being outside our reality. So just speculating, and even worse correlating with story books, is just fantasy and pointless.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 12, 2015 at 3:21 pm
(February 12, 2015 at 3:00 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: That's... a man getting ready to roll some dice and looking up to heaven in a prayer for good fortune, right?
Um . . . yeah, that's the ticket! 
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 12, 2015 at 3:29 pm
(February 12, 2015 at 3:11 pm)robvalue Wrote: Yeah. There may be something somewhere which created this reality. I'm not saying there isn't. I'm just saying there is no evidence suggesting that there is, and also we can't know anything about a being outside our reality. So just speculating, and even worse correlating with story books, is just fantasy and pointless.
Even if someone stated that science is quick to strike it down. There is a hypothesis with string theory that there is other universes like our own and we are in a multiverse and even still how would a being exist outside of time and space when in reality nothing can.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 12, 2015 at 3:44 pm
(February 12, 2015 at 3:11 pm)robvalue Wrote: Yeah. There may be something somewhere which created this reality. I don't think anyone is suggesting that there is more than one reality. The question concerns whether reality consists of only physical reality or whether other considerations are necessary to adequately explain all phenomena.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 12, 2015 at 3:57 pm
(February 12, 2015 at 3:44 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (February 12, 2015 at 3:11 pm)robvalue Wrote: Yeah. There may be something somewhere which created this reality. I don't think anyone is suggesting that there is more than one reality. The question concerns whether reality consists of only physical reality or whether other considerations are necessary to adequately explain all phenomena.
The problem of physical reality is that science over and over again has proven there being different layers to the reality that seems to be only one. Basically this ends up with everything being energy. But as humans we basically do not perceive ourselves as energy, nor do we perceive our surroundings as mere energy.
What probably will never be able to be proven is whether the "film" in the mind of one individual is the same "film" as in another, thus agreeing on what reality is. But perception is not physical reality.
What has been proven though is the incongruences between the perception of reality in one individual and in another. People see different things when looking at inkspots on white paper. Which then leaves the question of what then is physical reality.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 12, 2015 at 3:57 pm
(February 12, 2015 at 3:44 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (February 12, 2015 at 3:11 pm)robvalue Wrote: Yeah. There may be something somewhere which created this reality. I don't think anyone is suggesting that there is more than one reality. The question concerns whether reality consists of only physical reality or whether other considerations are necessary to adequately explain all phenomena.
You know what can answer these questions?
Science, given the right tools.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 12, 2015 at 4:31 pm
(This post was last modified: February 12, 2015 at 4:35 pm by Simon Moon.)
(February 12, 2015 at 3:44 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: I don't think anyone is suggesting that there is more than one reality. The question concerns whether reality consists of only physical reality or whether other considerations are necessary to adequately explain all phenomena.
So far, the only thing that actually does seem to exist, is physical reality. There doesn't even seem to be any 'phenomena', other than physical phenomena, that needs to be explained.
Every time someone claims there is some sort of supernatural reality, they can't seem to support it with actual evidence and reasoned argument. All we ever seem to get is anecdotes, personal feelings, fallacious philosophical arguments and hearsay.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 12, 2015 at 4:33 pm
(This post was last modified: February 12, 2015 at 4:35 pm by robvalue.)
When I talk of another "reality", in my mind it's either some other self contained place, or else one in which we are nested in but separated from.
It's all just entirely speculation, like you say. I've got no good reason to think it's true.
The nested reality is the nearest I can get to a sensible interpretation of the God hypothesis, instead of God sort of sliding around the "outside" of our reality like a frigging resident evil enemy.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 12, 2015 at 4:37 pm
(This post was last modified: February 12, 2015 at 4:38 pm by Pizza.)
(February 12, 2015 at 3:02 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (February 12, 2015 at 2:03 am)Pizz-atheist Wrote: If universe is the sum of all existing things then I don't see how it means sense to an existing uncaused cause is not part of this. If the universe is spacetime I don't see how saying spacetime began to exist is intelligible. As a panentheist (not pantheist) I agree that reality is of a whole. With respect to spacetime, that is not really at issue. The uncaused cause, prime mover, etc. is logically prior to subsequent causes. So you're not claiming the prime mover is temporally prior? Okay. How can anything exist logically prior to logic?
As for panentheism how would saying God is both the sum of all existing things and yet transcends the sum of all existing things, make any sense at all?
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 12, 2015 at 4:37 pm
And is also featured prominently in a story book as an angry Morgan Freeman.
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