Just another gun thread, don't bother reading.

[AFTT47]

How many Brits accidentally kill themselves or others with their royals each year? What about those who use the royals to intentionally kill each other?

I'm not saying the problem is the same; I'm saying the roots are the same.

[Losty]

How many Brits accidentally kill themselves or others with their royals each year? What about those who use the royals to intentionally kill each other?

I'm not saying the problem is the same; I'm saying the roots are the same.

But how is it even relevant? One isn't a problem at all and the other one gets people killed every day.

[Brakeman]

I read these posts and while I don't agree with the particulars of many, I greatly appreciate and adore the compassion from where they spring. You guys care about the people and families that get hurt from the mis-use of firearms. I applaud your big hearts.

Min's agitation at misbehaving Police and Gun Brandishers betrays his big heart for the "hard to love" people who have not had the best of homes and a silver spoon in their mouths. I think that is a sign of a great man and I must say my colored life experiences still yet keep me from being as accepting as he is. I look up to him in a way.

[AFTT47]

I'm not saying the problem is the same; I'm saying the roots are the same.

But how is it even relevant? One isn't a problem at all and the other one gets people killed every day.

The bottom line is that this isn't something which can be fixed with legislation. There has to be a culture change first - a big one. It's not a change likely to come about through any kind of pressure, either. The gun manufacturers love Obama because as soon as he was elected, gun sales skyrocketted - just out of the irrational fear that he was going to ban guns.

I know it's not what you want to hear but I don't think there is anything to be done about this until Americans lose their love affair with guns. They'll likely lose their love affair with Christianity first.

[IATIA]

They have not got rid of cigarettes yet and everyone, including smokers, knows what an extreme health hazard it is.

[abaris]

They have not got rid of cigarettes yet and everyone, including smokers, knows what an extreme health hazard it is.

But there's a big difference there. Smoking fags hurts yourself and I know what I'm talking about, since I am a smoker.

Guns on the other hand are made for killing. A weapon is a tool to inflict injury by design. One point I am seeing in all of this is that Americans never know who's actually packing and therefore feel the need to have a piece themselves.

It's pure madness seen from the outside. And no, I'm not about banning all weapons, but just as you need a license and a registered car to go for a drive, owning a weapon should at least fall under the same restrictions.

[404NotFound]

So here goes, I don't like to comingle my worlds, but this fits perfectly with what I'm dealing with in real life at the moment. I own a small town bar in rural Montana, and on the 17th of February we had a gun incident where thereby but for the quick thinking of the bartender and a couple of patrons the incident would have been the next tragedy in the crazy line that plagues America. Since it is still pending legal actions, I can only furnish the established facts.

There was a disagreement about the ownership of a coat. The disagreement carried out into the street where fisticuffs arose. After the fight, the apparent loser went to his car and brandished an AR15 (it's an assault rifle) and pointed it at least two people. The bartender herded people inside the bar, locked the door, and had people take cover in the casino. The gunman came to the door tried the door, walked away, came back tried the door again and then drove off.

The police were called while the gunman lurked about the premises. Being rural Montana the sheriff didn't arrive till forty-five minutes later, with no backup. In the mean time, the bar was unlocked, other people came in and everybody went about their business awaiting the cops. The guy comes back. This time unarmed, walks in and orders a beer. He was 'detained' by the customers while another quick thinking customer went to the guys car and 'recovered' the weapon. When the lone sheriff deputy arrived and arrested the gunman, he discovered there was one in the chamber and a thirty-round clip.

Now this is where the ridiculousness of the American justice system comes into play. The guy was given 75k bail, which he made the next afternoon. DUI offenders spend more time in lock up than a potential mass-murderer.

That's not the end of the story. Last Monday guess who makes a brief appearance in a security camera? You got it, the gunman. He was checking the location of the cameras in broad daylight. He then went to a local bar/restaurant and proceeded to get drunk. That a witness to the original crime worked there, may or may not have been a 'coincidence.' You be the judge. The guy was arrested again for violating the conditions of bail, was held for two day and given bail of $150k, which he met. He's out again. The bottom line, we're protected by the bulletproof paper of restraining orders and release conditions.

Being that time and distance is a huge issue, do you think some people who feel threatened will be packing? Legislation is all well and good, but in some parts of the world, it is after-the-fact. For me, I'll take my chances doing what I have to do and let the chips fall where they may.

http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/montana-m...r/31387150

[Ravenshire]

I think most Americans wouldn't give two shits about reasonable legislation aimed at protecting people from other people. The problem, as with everything else in our political system, is the subject gets polarized by the extremists into "taking all the guns" vs. "no controls, no limits."

There is reasonable ground in between, but no one gets to hear those messages. They're drowned out by the screaming extremists at each end.

[KUSA]

I hate the misuse of guns as much as anyone here. However I would have to be put down before someone takes my guns. My view on this will never change. It is who I am.

[IATIA]

They have not got rid of cigarettes yet and everyone, including smokers, knows what an extreme health hazard it is.

But there's a big difference there.

In what way? Cigarettes kill more than guns. Tobacco is easily controllable, but public interest and big money are not letting it happen. To stop tobacco only requires the simple law of making the purchase of tobacco products illegal for anyone born after March 1, 1994. No new smokers and the present ones will eventually die. Tobacco gone.

The tobacco companies are not going to let that happen anymore than the gun companies and public demand will shut down gun manufacture and ownership.

The three big killers are automobiles, tobacco and guns. None are going away. Simple licensing would help the gun issues, but automobiles are licensed and there are laws against DUI/DWI that have not stopped the senseless deaths of innocents. If we cannot stop tobacco, we have not a chance with guns. Any laws against guns will just make a lot of outlaws with little effect on overall ownership. In the end, there will always be the black market. And, push come to shove, one can make a gun, as was pointed out in an earlier post.

We need to change the system that allows 'passing the blame'. "I ran someone down, sue the bar", "I shot my kid, sue Remington", "I got cancer, sue Phillip Morris", "I drove too fast and missed 'dead man's curve', sue Ford", "I spilled my coffee, sue McDonald", "I live below sea level and got flooded, sue the government". Teaching and enforcing responsibility of choices is the ultimate solution.